The Uyghurs

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
I'm not arguing against the existence of Russian intel actors, I'm saying that the idea of them alone is enough to achieve some of their alleged aims. You can tear an organisation apart if you convince them there's a mole in their midst, whether there actually is or not.
Oh I see, then yeah I'd agree. The claim that there are prevalent hostile bots could sow distrust and paranoia, which may then drive discord, etc.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
That is, it makes sense to me that Russian Intel actors would mobilize a brigade of bot accounts and human-driven fake accounts, in the interest of compromising the social integrity of a rival nation. To me, it makes sense strategically and it seems feasible tactically.
It's very feasible, fairly easy to do. I saw a doc a while back about an alleged operation based in an African nation. They had a local handler who disappeared when the programme started shooting.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
My feeling is that disinformation has likely moved on a bit since that time though. A lot of the Qanon stuff is obviously self-perpetuating now.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
To me, it makes sense strategically and it seems feasible tactically.
This is my approach to processing political/geopolitical/business/etc information. Consider the perspective/interests of the source, then run the information through your own (dare I say sovereign) rationality, as opposed to just settling with the information at face value. Although sometimes face value can be enough.
 

version

Well-known member
Oh I see, then yeah I'd agree. The claim that there are prevalent hostile bots could sow distrust and paranoia, which may then drive discord, etc.
It's sometimes a struggle to distinguish bots and trolls from genuine dissent. You see people throwing accusations of posting in bad faith, being a paid poster or being a bot or a troll all the time.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
My feeling is that disinformation has likely moved on a bit since that time though. A lot of the Qanon stuff is obviously self-perpetuating now.
Really some of it seems brilliant, strategically, from what I understand.

Culturally appealing to alienated citizens, galvanizing them to be distrustful of and/or hostile to their nation, etc.
 

version

Well-known member
My feeling is that disinformation has likely moved on a bit since that time though. A lot of the Qanon stuff is obviously self-perpetuating now.
This is what I'm trying to say. The existence of actual actors isn't necessary if you can get the idea to take hold.
 
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Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
It's sometimes a struggle to distinguish bots and trolls from genuine dissent. You see people throwing accusations of posting in bad faith, being a paid poster or being a bot or a troll all the time.
I think its possible for internet users to eventually build up a sort of immunity to this kind of warfare, and I would personally rather expedite this kind of defense, rather than institute mechanisms for identity verification and content moderation.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
This is what I'm trying to say. The existence of actual actors isn't necessary if you can get the idea to take hold.
It's also an appealing get-out clause for people to dissociate themselves from those on the same side whose actions they disapprove of - witness how ready white supremacists who don't quite go as far as supporting violence are to blame white supremacist violence on "antifa provocateurs".
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Really some of it seems brilliant, strategically, from what I understand.

Culturally appealing to alienated citizens, galvanizing them to be distrustful of and/or hostile to their nation, etc.
In the earlier antitrust hearing with Zuckerberg, Bezos, Pichai and Cook as witnesses, one of the representatives (democrat I believe) briefly interrogated Zuckerberg about Facebook's involvement with Cambridge Analytica. The representative, I believe, quoted Bannon about CA's intention to target "alienated, machiavellian young men" and presumably radicalize them unto Trumpism.
 

Clinamenic

θερμοδυναμικός καπιταλιστής
Don't know if CA used bots at all, but I wouldn't put it past them. I know little about them in general.
 

HannahB

Well-known member
Maybe they're being restrained by business? Apparently the Chinese have been stealing products and whatnot from US companies for years and none of them were willing to do anything about it because they didn't want to lose business in the short term.


Technology theft and other unfair business practices originating from China are costing the American economy more than $57 billion a year, White House officials believe, and they expect that figure to grow.

Yet an investigation by NPR and the PBS television show Frontline into why three successive administrations failed to stop cyberhacking from China found an unlikely obstacle for the government — the victims themselves.

In dozens of interviews with U.S. government and business representatives, officials involved in commerce with China said hacking and theft were an open secret for almost two decades, allowed to quietly continue because U.S. companies had too much money at stake to make waves.
A friend saw evidence of theft from the tech company he worked for when in China and while watching international news in his high end hotel room, he caught “Tibet” and the tv turned to snow. Tibet is evidence of annihilation. Don’t see how all the evidence can be staged for Uighurs.
 

jenks

thread death
My wife worked in pre-Tinnamen China and has been following this story for quite some time. She has strongly argued that what we’re watching is state sponsored genocide where the west are more than aware of what is going on. Unlike WW2 and Germany we have no excuses of supposed ignorance and yet still we are powerless to stop the labour camps, mass sterilisations, forced abortions and other human rights violations. I’ve not much to add other than I trust her views as she’s pretty much an expert in comparison with most of us.
 

version

Well-known member
My parents were on holiday in China when Tiananmen Square happened. Apparently they had no idea until my mum was on the phone to my gran and she was freaking out over what was being shown on TV back home.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
A friend saw evidence of theft from the tech company he worked for when in China and while watching international news in his high end hotel room, he caught “Tibet” and the tv turned to snow.
I read somewhere that in Japan, their equivalent to our "wealthy Nigerian businessman" email scammers are usually based in China, and someone figured out that if you just reply to the email with the Chinese characters for "Tiananmen Square, 4 June 1989" in the title, you'll never hear from that scammer again - or make life a bit difficult for them, anyway - because China's national firewall will just shut down that IP address for all time.
 
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