Ishmael Reed

WebEschatology

Well-known member
Juice is very flawed but its interesting, its as much about OJ and how America likes to use black men as a scapegoat for all that's wrong and at the same time Reed realising that he's no longer on the cutting edge and that some of his views others might find offensive, doesn't quite hold together as a story and works better as a bunch of essays.

But the ending has stuck with me since i've read it, "cautiously optimistic" is the best way to describe it
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
I read a few of his interviews and articles whilst I was reading Mumbo Jumbo and he doesn't pull any punches. There's one where he really goes for Alice Walker. I'd forgotten she was into David Icke...
oh yeah he really has it in for her and what he considers her corporate feminist backers
have you read his obituary for Stanley Crouch? its as much about Crouch as it is about the NY literary establishment and how Crouch wanted to get rid of what he saw as "competition i.e. other black artists" so that way he was the only one left.

The part where he says that jazz criticism is the new white collar crime is so raw but it's true
 

version

Well-known member
oh yeah he really has it in for her and what he considers her corporate feminist backers
have you read his obituary for Stanley Crouch? its as much about Crouch as it is about the NY literary establishment and how Crouch wanted to get rid of what he saw as "competition i.e. other black artists" so that way he was the only one left.

The part where he says that jazz criticism is the new white collar crime is so raw but it's true
Nah. This one?
 

catalog

Well-known member
pound's cantos are all about this.

Screenomics. Simple/keep it in motion/ the valve is sphincter/unblock the turd-hoard tightarse/and burn the surplus/ in celebration.
i guess ginsberg must've read pound and would be aware of that?
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
what did you make of that one?
i dug it but i wish i could see it acted out rather than read it, Reed's thing of having characters recite these large paragraphs of dialogue doesn't exactly translate but its such a signature part of his style its hard for me to decry it.

But its clear that he doesn't hate Miranda if any he just sees him as the next in line in a series of tokens that the establishment like to prop up and foist on everybody saying how they're the future of whatever medium they're in.

Not just that but Miranda(whose involved in alot of dubious and cynical stuff not just Hamilton) is kinda regarded with pity it's as much about him as how his play has this effect of playing double think and manipulating people into thinking that Alexander Hamilton should be lauded as a hero when he was just as much a slave owner and racist as any other rich white man from his time.
 

version

Well-known member
oh yeah he really has it in for her and what he considers her corporate feminist backers
I was about to ask you about his friction with feminists. He mentioned in a few of the bits I read that he'd been attacked by them for pushing back against their depiction of black men. I think he gets into it in that Alice Walker piece.

That being said, I did notice all the women in Mumbo Jumbo were minor characters who weren't given much to do beyond have sex or get possessed by a Loa.
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
Alice Walker, Gloria Steinem there's a couple others he's brings up by name aswell and in his collection of plays the first one is this weird Mother Goose that's basically about the dangers of what happens when feminism goes too far.

far as i'm concerend that stuff is where he tends to shoot himself in the foot even though he has promoted and assisted with many an author/poets career
 

version

Well-known member
Alice Walker, Gloria Steinem there's a couple others he's brings up by name aswell and in his collection of plays the first one is this weird Mother Goose that's basically about the dangers of what happens when feminism goes too far.

far as i'm concerend that stuff is where he tends to shoot himself in the foot even though he has promoted and assisted with many an author/poets career
Steinem's an interesting figure, given she was a CIA asset;

"In my experience The Agency was completely different from its image; it was liberal, nonviolent and honorable."

😂
 

luka

Well-known member
he seems to have effectively insulated himself against the idea that other people might think hes a cunt. which is one kind of liberation i guess, but not one that i buy into particularly
 

version

Well-known member
I bet Patti Smith was like that with Burroughs too. You see those clips of all these younger artists at his house, reciting poetry and stuff, and it's just painful.
 
Top