Civility

[version]

When is and isn't it appropriate? Is it ever inappropriate?

I thought of making a thread on this after seeing the response to Colin Powell's death. Whenever a public figure dies, there's this dreary atmosphere of people using "don't speak ill of the dead," and the like to rebuff any sort of criticism whilst trotting out these bland, "reasonable" tributes saying stuff like "I may not have agreed with ..., but they always had integrity... " or "Today's politicians could learn a thing or two from ... ".

The same tactic's applied to the living. There are people who think Angela Rayner referring to Tories as "scum" is worse than the consequences of Tory policy. This hammering of people until they crack and show a hint of anger then using that as a way to wave away their points as unreasonable or hysterical or to simply change the subject's absolutely maddening. A load of people burn to death in a tower block, but don't be rude when you discuss it with Jacob Rees-Mogg.

That being said, the other side of it's that you've always got an army of people chomping at the bit to stick the boot in when someone's down or unable to defend themselves or just to turn everything into a brawl.

 

[luka]

Fuck off version version peado cunt

 

[luka]

Had to get that joke out the way

 

[version]

You're a difficult man to predict.

 

[Clinamenic]

I think one can be respectful and composed without being overly nice or overly observant of formal decorum. Actually I think niceness often functions to supplant genuine kindness and respect.

 

[version]

It's particularly galling to see someone like Mark Francois talking about abusive messages online after the amount of bile he's hurled at his opponents since Brexit became a major issue.

 

[version]

"Y’all place rudeness or being impolite on the same level of killing mass amounts of people"

"this was the media and government's gambit with trump, wherein they've drawn a new left/right divide pretty far to the right of the old one and justify it via evaluation of Manners (and also Misinformation) rather than policy"

 

[craner]

When is and isn't it appropriate? Is it ever inappropriate?

I thought of making a thread on this after seeing the response to Colin Powell's death. Whenever a public figure dies, there's this dreary atmosphere of people using "don't speak ill of the dead," and the like to rebuff any sort of criticism whilst trotting out these bland, "reasonable" tributes saying stuff like "I may not have agreed with ..., but they always had integrity... " or "Today's politicians could learn a thing or two from ... ".

The same tactic's applied to the living. There are people who think Angela Rayner referring to Tories as "scum" is worse than the consequences of Tory policy. This hammering of people until they crack and show a hint of anger then using that as a way to wave away their points as unreasonable or hysterical or to simply change the subject's absolutely maddening. A load of people burn to death in a tower block, but don't be rude when you discuss it with Jacob Rees-Mogg.

That being said, the other side of it's that you've always got an army of people chomping at the bit to stick the boot in when someone's down or unable to defend themselves or just to turn everything into a brawl.

These are two different things, I think.

The first point about not speaking ill of the dead is a conceit. Some dead people deserve to be spoken ill of. Also, there is nothing wrong with critical obituaries.

The second point about 'Tory scum' is something else: it's a tactic of dehumanisation. It can work both ways and it obscures far more than it elucidates. In some ways it is a deliberate choice not to understand something you disagree with or try to account for it with any clarity. It's blind tribalism and an example of the brutalisation of political discourse that has been advanced by technology and social conditions over the last 20 years.

 

[yyaldrin]

did you guys go out on the street and dance and drink pints when thatcher died?

 

[luka]

did you guys go out on the street and dance and drink pints when thatcher died?

No because it came far too late. I was working and I did write a couple of poems for people about it but there was no real carnival atmosphere

 

[craner]

did you guys go out on the street and dance and drink pints when thatcher died?

I wrote a short essay about it at the time.

 

[craner]

Luke and I are mad party animals @yyaldrin

I'm taking it you marked the event with an orgy?

 

[version]

The strongest argument for civility in politics specifically is probably the sizable role it plays in setting the tone of public life. A lack of civility at the top filters down to the bottom, as we've seen with Trump and Brexit.

 

[craner]

I actually think it has filtered up.

 

[luka]

Craner doesn't think this is one of your stronger threads version. You're going to have to find some clever way to wrench it off the received wisdom track if you want to impress Him.

 

[luka]

I was very drunk when I wrote this but it still makes perfect sense

California

sometimes i'm quite amazed by how much music i listened to from california as a teenager. ideas beamed in from the other side of the world.

dissensus.com

 

[version]

Craner doesn't think this is one of your stronger threads version. You're going to have to find some clever way to wrench it off the received wisdom track if you want to impress Him.

Maybe that's the key. I've already gotten more responses from him to this one than perhaps any other. You have to make a thread so abrasive to his sensibilities he's compelled to keep jumping in and correcting you.

 

[version]

I actually think it has filtered up.

Go on.

 

[luka]

Colonials and the lower orders associate civility with cant. That's why they like politicians like Paul Keating

 

[HannahB]

I think one can be respectful and composed without being overly nice or overly observant of formal decorum. Actually I think niceness often functions to supplant genuine kindness and respect.

england just loves to be nice while open carrying, and in groups; the most bourgeois bs oppressives/ killers, begins in the home presumably