Universally agreed terrible film(s)

linebaugh

Well-known member
Because it might be how like younger people I know from work revere the 80s: wasn’t it good back when rather than pastiche, since this film is like that age group. You don’t think this is subtly different from regular (earlier) postmodernism? I do.
I see I see. I dont think its total 80's reverence though. When I say romanticism for experiences no longer possible I think its two fold- on one end an illustration of how the 80's tropes dont entirely work now, how something has changed with time that makes it feel off in our current world, and on the other end a point towards the original falsity of that romance in that Ryan Goslings character is an 80's action star stuck in a slightly more realistic world and suddenly is revealed to be this weird autistic pyscho (amongst other things).
 

version

Well-known member
I rewatched Network last night and that's very much dealing with "a world colonised by mass media,". It's a bit on the nose and I want to like it more than I do, but it undoubtedly has its moments - Beatrice Straight's big scene, Holden dumping Dunaway, Ned Beatty's monologue - and it skewers more or less everyone involved, from the network executives to the performers to the terrorists and activists fighting over the TV money. This, of course, all topped off by the film itself being a piece of media, a product of that same system.

The bit that really stood out to me this time was Holden breaking up with Dunaway and describing her as "television incarnate,". It seems a bit hackneyed and obvious now, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect;

"It's too late, Diana. There's nothing left in you that I can live with. You're one of Howard's humanoids. If I stay with you, I'll be destroyed. Like Howard Beale was destroyed. Like Laureen Hobbs was destroyed. Like everything you and the institution of television touch is destroyed. You're television incarnate, Diana: Indifferent to suffering; insensitive to joy. All of life is reduced to the common rubble of banality. War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer. And the daily business of life is a corrupt comedy. You even shatter the sensations of time and space into split seconds and instant replays. You're madness, Diana. Virulent madness. And everything you touch dies with you... "

I haven't seen Demonlover, but I think you could stick that at the end of a triple bill starting with Network followed by Videodrome and have a pretty solid trilogy charting the effects and dangers of mass media.
 

version

Well-known member
I see I see. I dont think its total 80's reverence though. When I say romanticism for experiences no longer possible I think its two fold- on one end an illustration of how the 80's tropes dont entirely work now, how something has changed with time that makes it feel off in our current world, and on the other end a point towards the original falsity of that romance in that Ryan Goslings character is an 80's action star stuck in a slightly more realistic world and suddenly is revealed to be this weird autistic pyscho (amongst other things).
I think focusing on the 80s alone misses half the picture since two of the films most cited in relation to Drive are from the 60s (Le Samourai) and 70s (The Driver) and Refn considers Gosling's character in Drive to be some sort of mythical, deity-like figure who's also the police chief in Only God Forgives and Mads Mikkelsen's character in Valhalla Rising.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
mythical deity figure is a good way to put it.

what do you think of the film? and is only god forgives good?
 

version

Well-known member
I haven't seen it in years, but it grew on me and I liked it last time I saw it.

Only God Forgives, I'm not sure about. I definitely didn't think it was as bad as lot of people did, but I wanna rewatch it soon and see what I think. My main takeaway from it was that I couldn't believe the mother was Kristin Scott Thomas, she was completely unrecognisable.
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
I dont know enough about the film industry but I think it may have kicked off this type of proto a24 soft art house trend with handsome A listers (often netflix originals or straight to streaming) for people my age. I think its much better than most of those offerings though.
 

version

Well-known member
OGF is a seedier film than Drive. The characters are much more unpleasant and it takes you deeper into a much nastier underworld. There's a lot more neon too.
 

HannahB

Well-known member
I see I see. I dont think its total 80's reverence though. When I say romanticism for experiences no longer possible I think its two fold- on one end an illustration of how the 80's tropes dont entirely work now, how something has changed with time that makes it feel off in our current world, and on the other end a point towards the original falsity of that romance in that Ryan Goslings character is an 80's action star stuck in a slightly more realistic world and suddenly is revealed to be this weird autistic pyscho (amongst other things).
Romanticism for experiences no longer possible: due to corporate colonization/ digi world/ panopticon within and as you drive (LA has one speed camera unlike here (maybe the west side has some, do know), and even if it flashes it gets thrown out because it’s unconstitutional or something else, so you still have a sense of not being observed when you drive except by possible cops but that isn’t panopticon if you are white)… But you still see him as embodying SOMETHING- the autistic psycho… whereas I just felt him as a 0. Not meaning to shout, don’t know how to do italics.
 

HannahB

Well-known member
I think focusing on the 80s alone misses half the picture since two of the films most cited in relation to Drive are from the 60s (Le Samourai) and 70s (The Driver) and Refn considers Gosling's character in Drive to be some sort of mythical, deity-like figure who's also the police chief in Only God Forgives and Mads Mikkelsen's character in Valhalla Rising.
Never seen either - must watch
 

linebaugh

Well-known member
Romanticism for experiences no longer possible: due to corporate colonization/ digi world/ panopticon within and as you drive (LA has one speed camera unlike here (maybe the west side has some, do know), and even if it flashes it gets thrown out because it’s unconstitutional or something else, so you still have a sense of not being observed when you drive except by possible cops but that isn’t panopticon if you are white)… But you still see him as embodying SOMETHING- the autistic psycho… whereas I just felt him as a 0. Not meaning to shout, don’t know how to do italics.
everything you say is exactly why I like it! the corporate panopticon digi world feeling was what I was gesturing towards better said.
 

HannahB

Well-known member
everything you say is exactly why I like it! the corporate panopticon digi world feeling was what I was gesturing towards better said.
Then it boils down to whether it was conscious/ commenting with/ on structure or not.
You think it was fully consciously commenting on the current vacuous person taken up with/ propelled by VR landscape video game, who is at the same time its originator, as the autistic demi god (maybe like someone who works at google since Silicon Valley has a high percentage of autism families).
Bladerunner we know was conscious because the hero is still modernism’s anti hero. But why is the word postmodern not allowed here?
 
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