WebEschatology

Well-known member
It's interesting to me that you've posted no UK hip hop, not that I was necessarily expecting any. But like you say, it's a strange lineage.

And that is why I like Dean blunt.

Re trickys third album. I actually really like one song on that, which is his cover of slick Rick's moment I feared. I love the way he says "valera" on it.

i could and have thought about it but issue is what, do you really need to hear Skinnyman and Gunshot again?

i could put in some road rap in there but otherwise fuck knows
 

catalog

Well-known member
not to single Tricky out but that's the undercurrent that lurked in trip-hop waters innit?

its like how all that big beat stuff was basically hardcore tunes given performances enhancers and geared towards rock sensibilites
You mean they took "black" music and repackaged it for a coffee table audience?

Or something else?

That is certainly a valid criticism, in a sense, but I don't think tricky was doing that, or cared about it much. It's the same issue with Dean blunt really, he can't help what fans he has.
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
What do you think of what he said at that talk tho?

I think it's the crux of the matter here, the question you are asking. Is it bullshit?

I don't know myself to be totally honest but I feel like I can trust what he says about his lived experience, and some of what he says wiry regard to race is very on point to me. If you think it's posing bullshit, that is fair enough. I guess I gave him the benefit of the doubt there and the music was strong enough for me.
i do think its genuine and i'd be lying if i were to say i don't see something of myself in him,his points on race are great cause they're on the money but in way that even now i don't see certain people who are held up as "representitives of urban music" talk about cause it's still rooted in that kind of hardcore conservatism. Its more than obvious that places like Linkup or Pacman they more like to push artists who they deem does a thing in a genre of music well no matter how generic rather than anything that's really challenging.

there's alot of "performance" in there as far as how he talks in interviews. i mean putting out a mixtape where all the tracks titles are from the Wiley grimetapes comp is right up my street.

But i've meant to take the plunge more than once with him but there's always a thing with me where like i get that we both have contempt for that kind of indie dickhead conceptualist pose but he still does it anyway.
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
You mean they took "black" music and repackaged it for a coffee table audience?

Or something else?

That is certainly a valid criticism, in a sense, but I don't think tricky was doing that, or cared about it much. It's the same issue with Dean blunt really, he can't help what fans he has.
yeah the coffee table crowd, yes and i agree they can't help it its funny enough in the same way alot of "underground" rappers couldn't help having the fans they had because it went from being this ting that people who grew bored with rap at the time felt was unique and energising to getting use as the gateway alt rock people would use to get into rap music without having to deal with the messy sexual politics of it all. ALL while still unintentionally saying alot of deeply racist shit about rap they thought they were getting away from.
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
At best i look at your man as an interesting guy but just haven't gotten further to where say for you every new thing he does is "an event" which isn't to say there are people for me who are like that
 

catalog

Well-known member
i do think its genuine and i'd be lying if i were to say i don't see something of myself in him,his points on race are great cause they're on the money but in way that even now i don't see certain people who are held up as "representitives of urban music" talk about cause it's still rooted in that kind of hardcore conservatism. Its more than obvious that places like Linkup or Pacman they more like to push artists who they deem does a thing in a genre of music well no matter how generic rather than anything that's really challenging.

there's alot of "performance" in there as far as how he talks in interviews. i mean putting out a mixtape where all the tracks titles are from the Wiley grimetapes comp is right up my street.

But i've meant to take the plunge more than once with him but there's always a thing with me where like i get that we both have contempt for that kind of indie dickhead conceptualist pose but he still does it anyway.


It's tough tho isn't it, I mean how do you make money or maintain a profile without some kind of promo?

And I think his deliberate lying and making up stories was very funny for a while. Like a campaign of deliberate misinformation, it felt very refreshing, at least to me it did.
 

catalog

Well-known member
At best i look at your man as an interesting guy but just haven't gotten further to where say for you every new thing he does is "an event" which isn't to say there are people for me who are like that
Well to be completely honest, I have not listened to black metal 2 much at all, have bought it on vinyl but not played it.

But I do constantly return to the attitude era and the two rinse hyperdub shows.

I think he's sort of "over" in a sense, as an artist, but he's bringing some interesting stuff through on his label.

For a while tho, I was very excited by everything he did, it was an event like yoh say.

And I don't have anything else that quite does that for me, I like some djs a lot but there's not really an artist at the moment I'm obsessed with. It's a gap in my life.
 

catalog

Well-known member
yeah the coffee table crowd, yes and i agree they can't help it its funny enough in the same way alot of "underground" rappers couldn't help having the fans they had because it went from being this ting that people who grew bored with rap at the time felt was unique and energising to getting use as the gateway alt rock people would use to get into rap music without having to deal with the messy sexual politics of it all. ALL while still unintentionally saying alot of deeply racist shit about rap they thought they were getting away from.
We'll this is literally very similar to what he says himself, when he critiques the wire reading crowd who hold their girls close when he walks by
 

catalog

Well-known member
and i'll get around to the next 2 tunes (you do not have to check them out immediatly after the last 2)

the theme surrounding these 2 is UK/US hip hop collaborations:


Unfortunately I have a prejudice towards immortal technique which has its roots in a transatlantic family feud.

So this low key guy is English? I don't think he's a bad rapper but I just cannot get on board with the earnestness.

Horrible beat as well, doesn't work well.

UGK... I know em and like em. They are like 3 6 mafia who I know better, like more. But this is the same vibe, I like it.

Party guys talking about their views on the fairer sex. There's nothing much else going on, but hang on, who's that 2nd MC? Is that another English voice I hear? Tuff verse as well.

I like the odd sex rap, I like a few Keith ones. Probably my favourite of all time is ice t, lgbnaf.

It's one dimensional but I still much prefer it to the first one, that just winds me up.

Also I dunno if you already know this but someone did a cut up of UGK and hype williams which is very good.

 

catalog

Well-known member
ok only doing this to keep this thing going and the i'll leave you alone for the rest of the week cause Christmas but lets take it back to some really early rap shit @catalog :


(despite the length you'd be surprised at how quickly the time passes by)
Yeah I love both of these, heard both of them before.

This is my favourite sort of hip hop, yes.

I do tend to get into things I don't love love several years too late.

It's just innocent fun at this point but I like the precision and syncopation on the beats. There's a crispness and clarity I'm into.

Also the crew vibe and the passing of the mic, the posse effect, echoing one another etc. Keeps things moving. There's no story particularly, it's all just a laugh, they are having fun, you go with it.

My favs of this era are young MC, most afrika bambaataa but especially planet rock, spoony gee, almost all run DMC, almost all early ll, a lot of pe, stetasonic, epmd, almost all eric b and rakim.

It's fun as well with these, you get all the clips that get rerun in later tunes. Like from this one, it's got the "girls gitls girls" bit that Jay z lifted/reworked?

Jimmy spicer, I got hold of that dollar bill yall one from the wu sample and had it in a load of mixes. This one's good as well.

Of the 2, dunno which i prefer, neither are the best of that time for me, but I could get into both with enough listens. This era is timeless and untouchable, if I was asked to define hip hop for someone who knew less about it than me, someone who had never heard it, I would point to these 2 songs. American, and in fact NYC, groups of lads talking about how good they are their music are, nice mellow sample based beats that become earworms, 1980s.
 

luka

Well-known member
I had a feeling it was going to be him cos he was always pretending to be really into UGK
 

catalog

Well-known member
I really like that ugk vs hype williams mash, it's brilliant. The very muddy lo fi bit rolling beats with aggressive and sexist southern hip hop vocals over the top
 

catalog

Well-known member
Like about 8 mins in where they are talking about being gangsters over cassies my addiction, but it's his chopped and screwed fucked version. Excellent.
 

catalog

Well-known member
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WebEschatology

Well-known member
Unfortunately I have a prejudice towards immortal technique which has its roots in a transatlantic family feud.

So this low key guy is English? I don't think he's a bad rapper but I just cannot get on board with the earnestness.

Horrible beat as well, doesn't work well.

UGK... I know em and like em. They are like 3 6 mafia who I know better, like more. But this is the same vibe, I like it.

Party guys talking about their views on the fairer sex. There's nothing much else going on, but hang on, who's that 2nd MC? Is that another English voice I hear? Tuff verse as well.

I like the odd sex rap, I like a few Keith ones. Probably my favourite of all time is ice t, lgbnaf.

It's one dimensional but I still much prefer it to the first one, that just winds me up.

Also I dunno if you already know this but someone did a cut up of UGK and hype williams which is very good.

you just HAD to bring this back to Hype Williams didn't you you just HAAAAAD to?
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
also yes Lowkey's British does alot of activist stuff and is unfortunatly one of the kind of rappers the Guardian like to do interviews with to prove that he's "not like your typical rapper"
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
Yeah I love both of these, heard both of them before.

This is my favourite sort of hip hop, yes.

I do tend to get into things I don't love love several years too late.

It's just innocent fun at this point but I like the precision and syncopation on the beats. There's a crispness and clarity I'm into.

Also the crew vibe and the passing of the mic, the posse effect, echoing one another etc. Keeps things moving. There's no story particularly, it's all just a laugh, they are having fun, you go with it.

My favs of this era are young MC, most afrika bambaataa but especially planet rock, spoony gee, almost all run DMC, almost all early ll, a lot of pe, stetasonic, epmd, almost all eric b and rakim.

It's fun as well with these, you get all the clips that get rerun in later tunes. Like from this one, it's got the "girls gitls girls" bit that Jay z lifted/reworked?

Jimmy spicer, I got hold of that dollar bill yall one from the wu sample and had it in a load of mixes. This one's good as well.

Of the 2, dunno which i prefer, neither are the best of that time for me, but I could get into both with enough listens. This era is timeless and untouchable, if I was asked to define hip hop for someone who knew less about it than me, someone who had never heard it, I would point to these 2 songs. American, and in fact NYC, groups of lads talking about how good they are their music are, nice mellow sample based beats that become earworms, 1980s.
you and this thing with "mellow" beats" you keep coming back to it also you don't have anything literally ANYTHING to say about Adventures of super rhyme besides that? nothing to do with how it's 14 minutes long which seems like the total opposite of now nothing about how it's like the real deal "year zero" as all those haggard punk writers like to bring up in regards to all the weirder ends of rap that came later like Ramelzee yes kool keith and everybody else? The fact that he goes to Bagdhad,Studio 54 or Transylvania putting on the accent and everything when he meets dracula?
 
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