Artists open up John Peel's historic vinyl collection

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
Idiots. Age of consent laws are there to protect young people from predatory adults. It doesn't mean that all sex involving young people is therefore abuse. Groupies of undisclosed age offering themselves to celebrities seems pretty damn consensual to me.
 

sufi

lala
Idiots. Age of consent laws are there to protect young people from predatory adults. It doesn't mean that all sex involving young people is therefore abuse. Groupies of undisclosed age offering themselves to celebrities seems pretty damn consensual to me.
he was a bit of a misoygnist tho - The Pig was his pet name for his long suffering mrs iirc
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Idiots. Age of consent laws are there to protect young people from predatory adults. It doesn't mean that all sex involving young people is therefore abuse. Groupies of undisclosed age offering themselves to celebrities seems pretty damn consensual to me.

groupies who are 16-17, perhaps depending on context. Groupies who are 12-14? less so contextual. But regardless, I don't think the framework of consent is a useful concept. Abuse isn't always non-consensual in the strictly legal sense. There's a tendancy here to confuse the law as it operates for how people desire it to operate.

But tbf what is it with British men not being able to find women their age to bed and then talking about the barbaric browns marrying people 10 years their junior from pakistan/turkey/iraq/halal muzlamic land. Don't people ever get sick of the only identity to constantly affirm in British culture being that of gender/sex/sexual orientation? It's as if any other doubts of character, eclecticism in conviction, is seen as inquisitive, rather than something to master, and ultimately transcend.

And again, regardless, so what if John Peel is 'cancelled' in 2022, he's history now. He had his moment and its passed, the internet has made the john peel attitude of giving everything a chance ubiquotous, which is a blessing and a curse. the cultural filters kick in after a degree.

Anyway I usually agree with a lot of what you right but this is a bit of a rare L i feel.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
But tbf what is it with British men not being able to find women their age to bed and then talking about the barbaric browns marrying people 10 years their junior from pakistan.
Come on though, nobody (bar some hysterical prudes on twitter) gives a toss about adults having relationships with other adults who are 10 years younger. Adults marrying kids who are ten years old is what people - correctly - get upset over.
 

boxedjoy

Well-known member
Idiots. Age of consent laws are there to protect young people from predatory adults. It doesn't mean that all sex involving young people is therefore abuse. Groupies of undisclosed age offering themselves to celebrities seems pretty damn consensual to me.
there is no world where Peel's status, power and acclaim was not a factor of influence on anyone he met in his years of relative fame. It was something that shaped these encounters and relationships, and to pretend it isn't exploitative or abusive is to allow people to continue to benefit from these positions by allowing them to behave in such ways.

A fifteen-year-old might think they're ready for sex, they might even be ready (the age of consent being a fixed point is difficult because everyone matures at different stages etc). But the reason we have laws on "statutory rape" is because their consent cannot be considered as fully informed. These "groupies" may have gone to bed with older celebrities freely and willingly, but their agency to do so should not be considered valid, as there is no possibility these encounters are taking place between equals.

When I was a teenager I went online to speak to guys and I thought I was so grown up and sophisticated because adults were taking me seriously. Now I'm in my 30s I realise that the type of men who were interested in chatting to me in my teens were preying on my innocence and naivety while indulging my attempts to be mature for their own potential gratification. Just because I would have let myself be taken advantage of, doesn't stop it from being an example of being taken advantage of.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
There's not even any ambiguity about whether it was abuse or not in this case, he said it himself - 'All they wanted me to do was abuse them, sexually, which, of course, I was only too happy to do'.
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
But the reason we have laws on "statutory rape" is because their consent cannot be considered as fully informed.

No. The reason we have such laws is because it's safer to assume they can't consent. Rape charges are extremely difficult to prosecute anyway, but eliminating any defence on consent grounds provides young people (under the age of consent, which varies worldwide) with some protection under the law against predation. That's a legalistic formulation not a moral one. It doesn't mean young people can never consent or are unable to consent in all cases.
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Are we supposed to say, ah well, all power to him then, he found a loophole that makes what he did OK?
 

Benny B

Well-known member
Not trying to 'cancel' him btw cos I think all that stuffs silly, but don't see any point in defending him either.
 
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Benny B

Well-known member
I mean, we've all been there, let's face it
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Come on though, nobody (bar some hysterical prudes on twitter) gives a toss about adults having relationships with other adults who are 10 years younger. Adults marrying kids who are ten years old is what people - correctly - get upset over.

Yes, hysterical prudes on twitter, as if those are just automated bots.

Also people speak out about that hideous, disgustingly abusive custom when it happens of arranging marriages of older men to 8-10 year old girls. But when it can't be weaponised in the culture war by racists, those perspectives are said not to exist. If we speak out we're damned if we remain silent we're damned, what are we supposed to do to balm the psyche of yer average brexiteer who thinks halal should be banned but Kosher shouldn't? Even though they are precisely the same thing.

If you're going to criticise our culture for being retrograde and backwards (a perspective I'm not against modernism begins at home after all) then also subject yerselves to the same scrutiny. But your average Brit is parochial and nationalist, not cosmopolitan and internationalist.

Anyway, I was just making an anecdotal observation there, I don't want this to take the thread off topic.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
one thing i will say about Peel is there is no more figure subject to greater historical revisionism. People forget just how much shitty goa trance, hippie trails ethnodub, identikit indie etc etc he played.

The truth that people don't mention is that Peel in some ways was the archetypical public school bloke, pick from here and there, cast a wide social net and win over the hearts and minds of as many people. In a way its impossible to musically hate Peel cos his remit was so broad, but this also means that people start creating emotional attachments to him when really it's cos they liked to see their music of choice being confirmed and validated on national radio.
 
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