Provincial/Small Town Nihilism

[luka]

theres no world in which you become a valued member of the community. there is no neighbourhood bar you become a regular at. no one will ever know your name. these are times of complete and total anonymity and isolation.

 

[thirdform]

I find it interesting that the UK has managed to create this sense of the powerful urban elite versus the forgotten and left-behind towns given that it's such a small place in absolute terms. I mean, even leaving aside the fact that most people in Newham or Moss Side don't have much more in common with the actual elites than people in Sutton-in-Ashfield or wherever, it's just a bit weird that the geographical distances between metropolitan centres and the small towns that they're supposed to be disconnected from tend to be on the order of 30-50 miles at most, which is absolutely fuck-all when you compare it to the US idea of "flyover country" where people are literally hundreds of miles from the big urban cultural and economic hubs.

A lot of the labour party laid the rhetoric for that though. But if I say more I'm going to get crucified so I won't. But put it this way the majority of the old Victorian, Edwardian derived british working class (and Edwardian is key here) that image of the white working class, which does not even equate to most inner city whites today. That contingent overwhelmingly leaned conservative when taken as a long aggregate. This idea that the kids of miners are inclined to vote labour when really the problem was not the post-war consensus but 80s neoliberalism... Thatcher in that sense was an outlier, she wasn't tory because she saw the world and wanted to conserve tradition, she was a reactionary moderniser, same with that old gay marriage will mean I'll have to wed my son essex boy. In a way David Cameron was the ultimate vindication of the likes of Tebbit, because the party had become so levelled down, it had become, in some senses, a purely bourgeois, middle class party. Whereas in the 1950s or 1960s you couldn't really be a liberal middleclass tory, you either wanted to escape working class life and have a chance at nobility, or wanted to preserve the hierarchical structure. Someone like Cameron is interesting for that reason cos yes, an old Etonian boy he also has had to make superficial appeals to women and ethnic minorities because that old model simply isn't sustainable. He was a very cynical man, David was. A man with absolutely no convictions not even pull your bootstraps ideology. He just went with the economic necessities of the state.

The tory party has become a parody of itself, but not for the reason that most middle class Brits think.

 

[thirdform]

but I do think this nihilism if you will definitely transcends England and even Europe. It certainly exists amongst the Kurdish working class in Turkey for instance. Part of why erdogan is trying to ban the advertising of alcohol on tv, which is ostensibly based on religious grounds, but really it's to create a more compliant and more disciplined labour force. Less of that ol' sabotage at work eh? you'll have old women downing bottles of raki on the istanbul street then causing trouble straight after work. Erdogan for all his blustering about how he wants a conservative generation is an admirer of sanitised Europe, of Paris, of the West End, of Chelsea even.

Of course, part of the reason why he is just about clinging on is Syria, nato and his adventures in Libya. But the economy is still in an absolute shambles, and has been for years now.

 

[thirdform]

I could quite comfortably live in Gaziantep renting out a flat for a days minimum wage in Britain. But of course I'll have to work a month for that or receive a month of benefits to get the equivalent of £40. As Bordiga said, the hell of capitalism is not that the enterprise has a boss, but the enterprise itself.

 

[forclosure]

i sit outside in public and write poems for people and not even i talk to anyone, its completely transactional, ive been at it 5 years and never had a conversation let alone made a friend

luke in all honesty m8 you sound dangerously close to a "all people want to do is stare at their phones and be on twitter" spiel

 

[forclosure]

A lot of the labour party laid the rhetoric for that though. But if I say more I'm going to get crucified so I won't. But put it this way the majority of the old Victorian, Edwardian derived british working class (and Edwardian is key here) that image of the white working class, which does not even equate to most inner city whites today. That contingent overwhelmingly leaned conservative when taken as a long aggregate. This idea that the kids of miners are inclined to vote labour when really the problem was not the post-war consensus but 80s neoliberalism... Thatcher in that sense was an outlier, she wasn't tory because she saw the world and wanted to conserve tradition, she was a reactionary moderniser, same with that old gay marriage will mean I'll have to wed my son essex boy. In a way David Cameron was the ultimate vindication of the likes of Tebbit, because the party had become so levelled down, it had become, in some senses, a purely bourgeois, middle class party. Whereas in the 1950s or 1960s you couldn't really be a liberal middleclass tory, you either wanted to escape working class life and have a chance at nobility, or wanted to preserve the hierarchical structure. Someone like Cameron is interesting for that reason cos yes, an old Etonian boy he also has had to make superficial appeals to women and ethnic minorities because that old model simply isn't sustainable. He was a very cynical man, David was. A man with absolutely no convictions not even pull your bootstraps ideology. He just went with the economic necessities of the state.

The tory party has become a parody of itself, but not for the reason that most middle class Brits think.

yeah and once the refferendum went in the way nobody was expecting not even Farage the tory party have been going off on a libertarian bender like 52% is such a wide gap

tories of the 50s and 60s wouldn't have thought to do some of the tings they've done in the last decade plus nah cuz

 

[forclosure]

i mean really all 3 major parties have become parodies of themselves

 

[sus]

like, as if anybody talks to anyone anywhere anyway. no one is going to know you are a unique piece in their jigsaw. youre just another spam face ignored by everyone.

This is city culture talking.

 

[sus]

theres no world in which you become a valued member of the community. there is no neighbourhood bar you become a regular at. no one will ever know your name. these are times of complete and total anonymity and isolation.

This just isn't at all true of rural/small-town life. It wasn't even true in my hometown, which was large by town standards.

The family whose farm I live on is well-known in the community, to the point that there are stories about family members being pulled over by police and waved on when the officer saw X was Y's grandson. That's what happens when your family has an influential role over 80 years in a town of 3,000 people. People recognize your whole family, recognize your last name, remember the municipal roles and contributions. They know who helped fund the gazebo in the town square, and they know who organizes contra dances at Lion's Club, and they know who's bandleader at the annual 4th of July festival.

 

[sus]

Back in my hometown, everyone know the Kennys, who owned the apple orchards in See Canyon, near Avila; knew the Copelands, whose family owned all the downtown land.

And those are the big wigs. If you're the only pediatrician in town, if you're an elementary school teacher, where everyone's kids have had your class; when you go to buy groceries or to the gym, everyone knows exactly who are you are.

I got a whiff of this when I lived on a 200-person island in Turkey in my early 20s. I was only around 3, 4 months but every person on that island knew I was the American who worked at the cafe.

 

[shakahislop]

theres no world in which you become a valued member of the community. there is no neighbourhood bar you become a regular at. no one will ever know your name. these are times of complete and total anonymity and isolation.

It's an interesting fantasy though isn't it. One that I share. Am increasingly coming to this conclusion, that despite many people (saying) that this is what they want, it's becoming nearly impossible.

 

[thirdform]

This just isn't at all true of rural/small-town life. It wasn't even true in my hometown, which was large by town standards.

The family whose farm I live on is well-known in the community, to the point that there are stories about family members being pulled over by police and waved on when the officer saw X was Y's grandson. That's what happens when your family has an influential role over 80 years in a town of 3,000 people. People recognize your whole family, recognize your last name, remember the municipal roles and contributions. They know who helped fund the gazebo in the town square, and they know who organizes contra dances at Lion's Club, and they know who's bandleader at the annual 4th of July festival.

So what? It's still modular, capital can easily get rid of it. An empty ritual. Whereas in more agrarian societies those communities were an actual backbone, not peripheral to requirements.

I think calling this a city life prejudice is wrong if only because there is less mediation in smaller towns, but that doesn't mean the mediation doesn't exist or isn't reconfigured in different ways.

 

[thirdform]

Back in my hometown, everyone know the Kennys, who owned the apple orchards in See Canyon, near Avila; knew the Copelands, whose family owned all the downtown land.

And those are the big wigs. If you're the only pediatrician in town, if you're an elementary school teacher, where everyone's kids have had your class; when you go to buy groceries or to the gym, everyone knows exactly who are you are.

I got a whiff of this when I lived on a 200-person island in Turkey in my early 20s. I was only around 3, 4 months but every person on that island knew I was the American who worked at the cafe.

where? and also aren't you still in your early 20s?

 

[sus]

where? and also aren't you still in your early 20s?

Burgazada

Sadly, that chapter of my life has passed! I have only a few years left of acting like a kid and then I must grow up.

 

[woops]

theres no world in which you become a valued member of the community. there is no neighbourhood bar you become a regular at. no one will ever know your name. these are times of complete and total anonymity and isolation.

likewise the idea that the locals would revere the "smartest person in town" and elevate them to the status of some kind of village elder. maybe it'd be different if you lived somewhere stuck in the 19th century like @suspended does

 

[luka]

luke in all honesty m8 you sound dangerously close to a "all people want to do is stare at their phones and be on twitter" spiel

do you have a friendly chat with the woman at the supermarket checkout? Hello Mrs Miggins, how's the family? do you nurse a warm pint of lager in the St Geroge of an afternoon, swapping racing tips with the other regulars?

 

[luka]

since i moved out of home i've never known any of my neighbours, not even to nod to.

 

[Mr. Tea]

luke in all honesty m8 you sound dangerously close to a "all people want to do is stare at their phones and be on twitter" spiel

It's fine, he's just sounding out ideas for his next Spectator column. We've all gotta eat, leave him alone, eh?

 

[luka]

likewise the idea that the locals would revere the "smartest person in town" and elevate them to the status of some kind of village elder. maybe it'd be different if you lived somewhere stuck in the 19th century like @suspended does

He's Amish

 

[luka]

This just isn't at all true of rural/small-town life. It wasn't even true in my hometown, which was large by town standards.

The family whose farm I live on is well-known in the community, to the point that there are stories about family members being pulled over by police and waved on when the officer saw X was Y's grandson. That's what happens when your family has an influential role over 80 years in a town of 3,000 people. People recognize your whole family, recognize your last name, remember the municipal roles and contributions. They know who helped fund the gazebo in the town square, and they know who organizes contra dances at Lion's Club, and they know who's bandleader at the annual 4th of July festival.

yes OK, there are exceptions, in cities too people often know the names of the local criminal families. In Islington everyone pretends to know the Adamses. But these are special cases.