algorithmic indie

forclosure

Well-known member
why don't amrikkkans outside of hip hop like full metal jacket, hellraiser and texas chainsaw massacre samples in their music and resort to day off in kyoto? After all they invented and mastered the art of the horror film. explain it shaka.
Because the metal bands have had a firm grip on that stuff for years

Some bands like Mortician the movie samples make up most of the song length and the actual songs themselves are like 5 seconds

On that note @suspended @shakahislop do you two remember that period of time when all the frailest skinniest guys in indie rock all just decided to get really into black metal out of nowhere?

Thurston moore and whatshis name out of the Microphones come to mind
 

thirdform

Well-known member
why is white america afraid to embrace rnb, umm kulthum, wrist slashing arabesk bombs, greek folk, bulgarian polyphonic litergies, noor jehan, asha bosle?

Real emotions and ting.


 

thirdform

Well-known member
Because the metal bands have had a firm grip on that stuff for years

Some bands like Mortician the movie samples make up most of the song length and the actual songs themselves are like 5 seconds

On that note @suspended @shakahislop do you two remember that period of time when all the frailest skinniest guys in indie rock all just decided to get really into black metal out of nowhere?

Thurston moore and whatshis name out of the Microphones come to mind

sure I'm aware of that. but I want shaka to find gangsta indie, or combust whilst exploring the contradiction from exhaustion.
 

forclosure

Well-known member
Also @suspended i have to ask because i think you'd be the one to know have you heard of Alex G? I ask because that guy seems to have amassed the organisations pretty dedicated folowing even if some of his stuff is like whispery elliot smith shit.

There was a video him shaking his ass on stage with his band which had some of his fans sort of lovingly mocking him and all i could think "you guys need to come collect your man?"
 

suspended

Well-known member
Also @suspended i have to ask because i think you'd be the one to know have you heard of Alex G? I ask because that guy seems to have amassed the organisations pretty dedicated folowing even if some of his stuff is like whispery elliot smith shit.

There was a video him shaking his ass on stage with his band which had some of his fans sort of lovingly mocking him and all i could think "you guys need to come collect your man?"
I managed to go many years in scenes where Alex G was beloved, without ever listening to Alex G.

But you should be flattered to know I've broken that abstinence and am now going through hits to understand what the F is going on
 

suspended

Well-known member
He's livin his life it's silly but I've already taken a principled stance to defend non-practicing nonces this week, so it would be counter-productive to get upset about this
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
one quirk of popular indie land in england is that every now and then something like this tune comes along and for some reason everyone likes it for a few months, and in a year everyone will think it's shit. because it is shit. but there's something about it which is quite captivating right now; probably the spoken word thing and the clunky words, and the odd sex thing that's going on
I enjoy lounging on a chaise longue all day, not sure that's what she has in mind though.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
one quirk of popular indie land in england is that every now and then something like this tune comes along and for some reason everyone likes it for a few months
American indie is more consistent but somehow, even less interesting than British indie

so it rarely plumbs the truly naff depths of Shitbrit but equally it is never, ever, as a rule, interesting, in any capacity

just an endless soundtrack of relatively competent chamber pop and/or uninspired nu-garage rock to soundtrack car commercials

British indie I'm sure also produces a tidal wave of that kind of forgettable dross but it is occasionally bad in a memorable way

i.e. "do you want us to assign someone to butter your muffin?"

that kind of inspired, nonsensical badness is beyond the remit of American indie
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
remember that period of time when all the frailest skinniest guys in indie rock all just decided to get really into black metal out of nowhere?
I do not remember that but I do remember how much metal dudes universally hated Liturgy

for the unfamiliar, that's the guy who got out of college and devoted a black metal band to Ralph Waldo Emerson et al

the vibe is very, what if a bunch of indie dorks had a black metal band instead of yr typical Radiohead/Paul Simon clone

like a sketch lampooning absurdities of Brooklyn Cultural Mafia only all too real
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
American indie is more consistent but somehow, even less interesting than British indie

so it rarely plumbs the truly naff depths of Shitbrit but equally it is never, ever, as a rule, interesting, in any capacity

just an endless soundtrack of relatively competent chamber pop and/or uninspired nu-garage rock to soundtrack car commercials

British indie I'm sure also produces a tidal wave of that kind of forgettable dross but it is occasionally bad in a memorable way

i.e. "do you want us to assign someone to butter your muffin?"

that kind of inspired, nonsensical badness is beyond the remit of American indie
i think american indie-land was the center of guitar music innovation in the 90s. your description fits since then though for me.

the hype waves and the written mediation (ie the writing about the music) are super interesting in themselves though, even if the music generally isn't. whatever it is that's going on to make such a chunk of people get so much out of Wilco.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
i've said it before on here i think, i reckon people relate to the wetness of it. who gives a shit. why even try to make something good. it's often kind of arch and knowing as well. i think all of that is related to it basically music that is made by and consumed by people who are mostly a bit rich, in a very unequal country. these are generalizations obviously
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
i think american indie-land was the center of guitar music innovation in the 90s
I think that depends on what you're including

if you're making it a much broader field - indie-land - vs a narrower sound - indie rock - so you can include post-rock and all that, then OK

I still 1000% wouldn't say "the center of guitar music innovation" - but some level of innovation, rather than a staid and dusty echo chamber, OK

the 90s was the last decade where people really cared about selling out and credentials

i.e. indie still primarily referred to means of distribution, rather than sound
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
I still 1000% wouldn't say "the center of guitar music innovation" - but some level of innovation, rather than a staid and dusty echo chamber, OK
yeah, probably an overstatement, but still. dinosaur jr and that end of things. post-rock as you say. sonic youth. there was a lot going on.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
dinosaur jr and that end of things. post-rock as you say. sonic youth. there was a lot going on.
Dinosaur Jr and SY both, ironically, "sold out" and moved from SST - maybe the canonical independent rock label - to majors in the early 90s

more importantly probably, they both predate indie rock

in fact they are both chapters in Our Band Could Be Your Life, which is subtitled...Scenes From the American Indie Underground

i.e. the heyday of independent rock bands in the true sense, which was the 80s

and the collection of bands in that book has almost nothing sonically to do with "indie rock"

out of 13 the only one you could really call indie in a modern sense is Beat Happening

and latter Husker Du, but only once they - again - "sold out" to a major label post-Zen Arcade
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
btw I just want to note that hardcore created DIY and independent music networks

out the bands in that book, which is as good a canonical listing as any for American independent rock in the 80s

they were almost all either hardcore (Black Flag, Minor Threat), started as hardcore (Husker Du), were hardcore-adjacent and started in the same scenes (The Minutemen, Mission of Burma, The Replacements, Big Black, Butthole Surfers), or post-hardcore (Dino Jr - J Mascis's 1st band was the proto-powerviolence Deep Wound, Fugazi, Mudhoney + all of grunge follow Flipper via The Melvins via post-My War Black Flag). Sonic Youth and as mentioned Beat Happening are the only real outliers, and even SY comes out of no wave and the early 80s NY DT scene rather than any kind of pensive indie jangling or whatever.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
which highlights the issue that indie is a "genre" with no past, no antecedents

it is a genre built around a type of distribution network that it itself generally doesn't employ

and further, has been basically a meaningless distinction - indie vs major - for its entire existence

in fact "indie" doesn't - can't - codify into a specific genre-sound until that distinction becomes meaningless, so as to lose the term's original meaning

it's like a committee of hip elevator music DJs got together to create the most defanged and benign version of rock music possible

hence I guess the uncanny factor you feel when hearing it - music by no one in particular for no one in particular
 
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