The Darrell Brooks trial

[martin]

Has anyone been watching this? Totally bonkers. Brooks is the wanker who drove an SUV into a Xmas parade in Wisconsin last year, killing 6 and injuring loads more. You’d think he might have got a good lawyer and played the contrite/emotionally distressed card, but instead he’s decided to represent himself – and he knows as much about the US legal system as I do.

His strategy seems to be to say “Objection - Leading” or “Objection – Irrelevancy” EVERY time the prosecutors ask the witnesses a question, only for the judge to overrule him and point out what these terms actually mean (she’s given up now, and just tells him to be quiet). She’s thrown him out of the courtroom a couple of times for claiming to be a ‘sovereign citizen’ (looked this up, it’s bonkers too) and for his stalling tactics.

One of the weirdest aspects is the way he raises an objection whenever anyone mentions his name when he’s in ‘third person’, as his own lawyer – especially ludicrous when he was questioning his ex-girlfriend (you can literally see her brain going WTF?). He comes across like a schizoid Apprentice candidate, floundering around as he tries to outsmart everyone with words he doesn’t understand and increasingly pointless questions, but just digging his own hole deeper. You end up gawping, thinking “Does he seriously think he’s going to win this, or is it just theatre?”

Almost certain he’ll get life, maybe this week.

 

[WashYourHands]

(in Jeremy Clarkson voice) who hasn’t wanted to drive a large vehicle through some crowds at one point in their driving lives?

 

[Leo]

I guess with the right to a fair trial before a jury of peers, innocent until proven guilty, etc., there's really no choice but to let him babble and role play until he gives himself enough rope. In the Trump era, it's bound to become more common. lots more sovereign citizens out there now.

 

[john eden]

I think that's right @Leo but you have to ask if the guy is fit for trial and/or whether this might lead to an appeal at some stage I guess.

I always feel very conflicted when this stuff happens, because on the one hand it is extremely satisfying seeing these Very Online conspiracy loons slowly realising their schtick evaporates when exposed to consensus reality.

On the other hand you have to worry about an increasingly militant subculture of people who got sucked into these wormholes and what that says about the prospects for, y'know better stuff happening.

 

[Leo]

Another problem is lots of these Very Onliners never realize their schtick has evaporated. In the Trump era (again!), there are true believers who just deny reality and double down on their fantasy.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

On the other hand you have to worry about an increasingly militant subculture of people who got sucked into these wormholes and what that says about the prospects for, y'know better stuff happening.

I'm afraid that ship has already well and truly sailed, John

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

something something failure to plan with or deal for long-term negative consequences of globalization (deindustrialization, gutting of organized labor, environmental degradation etc) interacting with self-curated Internet echo chambers to amplify misdirected fear/anger/anxiety about economic and social disruption something something

w/growth and mainstreaming of white supremacist ideologies and white supremacist/adjacent domestic terrorism as the most radical manifestation of that interaction - just read an interview w/a historian the other day about the shift in white supremacist movements from being rabdi defenders of what they viewed as the American state to anti-government revolutionaries that took place in the early 80s

I think it's both a tactical and strategic mistake to dismiss these people as lunatics. undoubtedly there are some lunatics but these things beget each other. leaderless terrorism is still the product of a network. it's the racist dream of The Turner Diaries filtered thru 4chan etc.

 

[version]

I don't think this particular bloke is some sort of political extremist. He just seems like a random nutter. He certainly isn't a white supremacist. He's black.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I don't think this particular bloke is some sort of political extremist. He just seems like a random nutter. He certainly isn't a white supremacist. He's black.

sorry I should have been clearer what I meant by "adjacent"

the sovereign citizen thing 100% originates in racist and anti-semitic circles, i.e. Christian Identity and that kinda thing

so even if this dude obviously isn't (you'd hope) a white supremacist, his conspiratorial beliefs still originate there

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

and also I should be clear that plenty of these people probably do have mental health issues as well. it's not an either/or.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I just mean I think it's important to fight back against the view of them as lone nuts

i.e. after the El Paso shooting there was a leaked GOP talking points memo that specifically directed spokespeople to move the public conversation toward mental health and away from white nationalism/supremacy. it also directed them to muddy the waters by bringing up "violence from the left", including by blatantly lying that the shooter and other recent right-wing terrorists were on the left/Antifa/etc.

 

[IdleRich]

Has anyone been watching this? Totally bonkers. Brooks is the wanker who drove an SUV into a Xmas parade in Wisconsin last year, killing 6 and injuring loads more. You’d think he might have got a good lawyer and played the contrite/emotionally distressed card, but instead he’s decided to represent himself – and he knows as much about the US legal system as I do.

His strategy seems to be to say “Objection - Leading” or “Objection – Irrelevancy” EVERY time the prosecutors ask the witnesses a question, only for the judge to overrule him and point out what these terms actually mean (she’s given up now, and just tells him to be quiet). She’s thrown him out of the courtroom a couple of times for claiming to be a ‘sovereign citizen’ (looked this up, it’s bonkers too) and for his stalling tactics.

One of the weirdest aspects is the way he raises an objection whenever anyone mentions his name when he’s in ‘third person’, as his own lawyer – especially ludicrous when he was questioning his ex-girlfriend (you can literally see her brain going WTF?). He comes across like a schizoid Apprentice candidate, floundering around as he tries to outsmart everyone with words he doesn’t understand and increasingly pointless questions, but just digging his own hole deeper. You end up gawping, thinking “Does he seriously think he’s going to win this, or is it just theatre?”

Almost certain he’ll get life, maybe this week.

Sounds amazing. I was watching this programme called Lincoln Lawyer this week and it struck me how US legal things make lawyering look so exciting, in a good show the barristers act as detectives and find evidence the police never did to not only get their guy off but probably find the right guy and somehow have him tried and found guilty even though he's not even the defendant. It also involves shouting "objection" a lot and making eloquent speeches to the jury. If they get it right it can make fun television but even I can see they may not be one hundred percent realistic and possibly not a good basis for one's own defence. I've also read about the sovereign citizen malarkey which... well, same goes really, I just can't see that insisting that the legal system is wrong and that you know a better one that supersedes it is going to be a big winner when being tried under the boring old one which sadly happens to be the law of the land.

I did like Homer's attempt after being found guilty "Your honour, I'd like that last remark stricken from the record" which sounds as though it would have about as much success as this chap.

 

[IdleRich]

(in Jeremy Clarkson voice) who hasn’t wanted to drive a large vehicle through some crowds at one point in their driving lives?

Sounds like when Roger Melly had to stand in for Clarkson but he couldn't actually drive the cars cos he'd lost his licence "Hit a bus queue, totally their fault, came out of nowhere" - instead he says "But I'm not gonna drive this car, I'm gonna fuck it. Up the arse".

 

[IdleRich]

I think that's right @Leo but you have to ask if the guy is fit for trial and/or whether this might lead to an appeal at some stage I guess.

If that should happen then he gets to have his fun and another shot at it, it's a win win.

 

[IdleRich]

Another problem is lots of these Very Onliners never realize their schtick has evaporated. In the Trump era (again!), there are true believers who just deny reality and double down on their fantasy.

This is it. I get ludicrous predictions up to a point eg Arizona is going to decertify and declare that Trump won the state, but when you have people going to the next level insisting that Arizona has decertified and if you don't think it has it's cos you're reading the usual lying msm sources which are covering it up then they have crossed the line. People in that position are clearly vulnerable to believing that the sovereign citizen thing is a valid defence, if the Gateway Pundit tells them that that guy used it and got off scott free with the prosecutors having to apologise and buy him a new car then they will try it themselves if they end up in court.

 

[IdleRich]

it also directed them to muddy the waters by bringing up "violence from the left", including by blatantly lying that the shooter and other recent right-wing terrorists were on the left/Antifa/etc.

That's one you see a lot, and it doesn't surprise me at all cos there has long been that argument that Hitler and the Nazis were on the left. The first time I saw that I was completely staggered and assumed that a few basic points would correct it - of course that was a long time ago, now I realise that swallowing much bigger lies is totally common place and there is no way to convince such types. But yeah if you can argue that then why not do the same for a Trump voter who happens to have a black (must be Antifa) top in the background as he records his MAGA rant from his bedroom.

Another thing that is very popular at the moment is this thing about "America is a republic not a democracy" which... I always find surprising cos I always thought that part of American exceptionalism was this idea about being a beacon of democracy, I'm surprised to see it being so easily thrown away. It's a very strange thing that the most passionate defenders of the American Way are very happy to change what that is while remaining equally dedicated to it.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

that argument that Hitler and the Nazis were on the left

That's a bit different bc there was initially a leftist Nazi element, i.e. Strasserism as well as Rohm and some of the SA (the Brownshirts). It was very largely purged on the Night of the Long Knives, but it existed long and prominently enough to complicate that argument, even if it's probably usually made in bad faith.

What I'm talking about are out and out lies, simply claiming that self-avowed right-wing domestic terrorists are left-wing. Blaming Antifa for January 6. That kind of thing.

 

[IdleRich]

That's a bit different bc there was initially a leftist Nazi element, i.e. Strasserism as well as Rohm and some of the SA (the Brownshirts). It was very largely purged on the Night of the Long Knives, but it existed long and prominently enough to complicate that argument, even if it's probably usually made in bad faith.

What I'm talking about are out and out lies, simply claiming that self-avowed right-wing domestic terrorists are left-wing. Blaming Antifa for January 6. That kind of thing.

That's what I mean, to start with there are reasons... there is even "socialism" in the name but once you've done that kind of lie other lies come easier. They can often find some tiny thing to hang their bullshit on however tenuous. And then after you've done that - exactly, outright lies.

 

[IdleRich]

I guess I'm thinking specifically of that guy recently who was arrested after a spree shooting - and yeah he was a self-avowed Trump supporter and attended Trump rallies I believe, but there were things they could use - however ridiculously - to argue that he was actually a leftie.

 

[IdleRich]

Highland Park shooter Robert aka Bobby Crimo ran with Antifa. Loved to mock Trump supporters, crashed rallies and took photos specifically to use as cover… for this very instance.

Put below a picture of him in black which obviously means he is Antifa.

In fact looking into it they went all in on making him out Antifa, they even made a fake insta account and said that his tats showed membership of a socialist group, except sometimes they were antifa in fact.