Low Traffic Neighbourhoods Backlash

sufi

lala
an excellent means of aggravating the right people

but also achieving reasonable success despite a spirited reactionary backlash


i seriously wonder where the energy (and $$$) behind the anti-LTN campaign comes from - in our neighbourhood it was clearly well coordinated, posters in all the shop windows and well-rehearsed lines of argument

via Londra Bisiklet Kulubu

@LondonCyclingC3
 

Leo

Well-known member
That Skum observation is a universal truth now, the state of America in a nutshell.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
I think there's actually two things here.

One is people objecting to LTNs / 15 minute cities / ULEZ / congestion charging / modal filters / whatever because driving a mile from their house to do a thing and then driving back, or driving into town and parking for free is a thing that people can currently do, and they can see the downside of people not being able to do that, but they can't imagine an alternative world that's better in any way (like one where you can do the thing within a short, pleasant walk of your house, or have quick and reliable buses into town, or a generally nicer urban environment). I think someone else pointed out that this kind of goes hand-in-hand with a general cynicism about politics and the world in general and an unwillingness to believe that any scheme being "imposed on us by politicians" could actually make things better than their current fairly miserable state.

This is the sort of objection that we've traditionally seen to LTNs, and it's what often goes away once people have actually seen the results in practice and directly experienced the upsides, which is why most of the opposition to these schemes tends to happen beforehand, and they're generally more popular once they've bedded in and people have got used to them. It's a position that I don't agree with, but it's not bat-fuck mental either.

The second is this broader thing where anti-traffic stuff blurs into conspiracy-minded views about COVID, social credit systems, the great reset, "international socialists" etc by anti-woke galaxy-brains. This seems like a new thing - I guess it's a way of moving on from all the dire predictions about endless lockdowns and having to show your vaccine passport to buy a pint of milk that turned out to be total bollocks - and I don't know how much significance it's actually got in the grand scheme of things outside of a bunch of internet weirdos, but it's kind of weird to see it surfacing in an actual parliamentary question.
 

sufi

lala
I think there's actually two things here.

One is people objecting to LTNs / 15 minute cities / ULEZ / congestion charging / modal filters / whatever because driving a mile from their house to do a thing and then driving back, or driving into town and parking for free is a thing that people can currently do, and they can see the downside of people not being able to do that, but they can't imagine an alternative world that's better in any way (like one where you can do the thing within a short, pleasant walk of your house, or have quick and reliable buses into town, or a generally nicer urban environment). I think someone else pointed out that this kind of goes hand-in-hand with a general cynicism about politics and the world in general and an unwillingness to believe that any scheme being "imposed on us by politicians" could actually make things better than their current fairly miserable state.

This is the sort of objection that we've traditionally seen to LTNs, and it's what often goes away once people have actually seen the results in practice and directly experienced the upsides, which is why most of the opposition to these schemes tends to happen beforehand, and they're generally more popular once they've bedded in and people have got used to them. It's a position that I don't agree with, but it's not bat-fuck mental either.

The second is this broader thing where anti-traffic stuff blurs into conspiracy-minded views about COVID, social credit systems, the great reset, "international socialists" etc by anti-woke galaxy-brains. This seems like a new thing - I guess it's a way of moving on from all the dire predictions about endless lockdowns and having to show your vaccine passport to buy a pint of milk that turned out to be total bollocks - and I don't know how much significance it's actually got in the grand scheme of things outside of a bunch of internet weirdos, but it's kind of weird to see it surfacing in an actual parliamentary question.
they are out on the streets wastrels
 

sufi

lala
+ inflicting violence on traffic calming street furniture and sedentary xr protestors whenever they get the chance
 

chava

Well-known member
What I don't get is how can Conservatives be against this? LTNs helps building local communities away from state control , incentivize healthy living that reduces pressure on the NHS, reduces pollution (including noise), let the kids roam the streets and thereby be more independent, free land use for housing etc etc etc. How all this is building a socialist utopia is beyond me.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think there's actually two things here.

One is people objecting to LTNs / 15 minute cities / ULEZ / congestion charging / modal filters / whatever because driving a mile from their house to do a thing and then driving back, or driving into town and parking for free is a thing that people can currently do...
OK, what "town" do you live in where this is possible?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What I don't get is how can Conservatives be against this? LTNs helps building local communities away from state control , incentivize healthy living that reduces pressure on the NHS, reduces pollution (including noise), let the kids roam the streets and thereby be more independent, free land use for housing etc etc etc. How all this is building a socialist utopia is beyond me.
Listing all the ways in which the present Tory government isn't actually "conservative" in the ideal sense of valuing the things you mention would be a bit like listing all the ways in which Donald Trump isn't a particularly good Christian.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
How have we arrived at a situation whereby a significant minority of people are so thoroughly fucked in the head that their reaction to any policy that could materially improve most people's lives, including their own, is to insist that it's socialist slavery and/or a new Holocaust?
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
It's interesting that a load of people who were claiming that covid control measures were a plot by governments to introduce permanent lockdowns and/or social credit systems have now seen that covid control measures demonstrably didn't lead to permanent lockdowns and/or social credit systems and have generally been rolled back as fast as they safely could (or faster), and that their response wasn't "huh, that was a load of bollocks" but "hey, insisting that things are plots by governments to introduce permanent lockdowns and/or social credit systems is fun, I should do more of it." I mean, that's a glib way of putting it, but it does seem like the conspiracist mindset in a nutshell.
 

version

Well-known member
It's a religious mindset in some respects, like those cults that predict the end of the world then when it doesn't arrive just make another prediction.

They have faith.
 
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