Reggae Roots in Techno?

blissblogger

Well-known member
Not to pooh-pooh the premise of the thread - and loving all the audio evidence getting thrown up - but part of this thing of the strange parallel echoes that occur in otherwise seemingly remote genres is just down to the same technology and bits of equipment becoming available more or less simultaneously

It's bit like with that Indian bloke whose name I forget who used a 303 in the early '80s, and people were like, 'this decenters the West from the narrative! look look he invented acid house ahead of schedule!'. But he didn't - any more than Imagination, Orange Juice, and Matt Bianco, who all used the 303 as soon as it came on the market, invented it. "Acid house" is more than just the gear or even a particular application of the gear, it's as much to do with the social results of a wave of tracks, the behaviours elicited, the titles and artist names even - it's the "set and setting" to use an appropriately LSD phrase.

So for instance as bizarrely unlikely as this track's existence is, it would be ahistorical to claim that Cat Stevens invented electro in 1977. Simply because nobody noticed him doing so. Reception is as much of a determinant of a music form as is creation or intention.

 
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blissblogger

Well-known member
There's a good example of this with dub actually

Did The Chamber Brothers, or their producer David Rubinson, invent dub in August 1967, with the echoey hallucinatory bit that starts about 2.46 in "Time Has Come Today"?


Of course not. It's a group who have grasped - as did other psychedelic groups, and musique concrete / Radiophonic type before them - the disorienting potential of echo and reverb and multi-track recording.

"Dub" as we know it happens because of reverb and other FX colliding with a host of social uses and meanings in a specific place at a specific time.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
also depends on what techno we're referring to. I would contend that basic channel and myriad derivatives excluded, German techno has very little to do with reggae and dub, much more to do with hi nrg, ebm etc.

Especially the frankfurt variants.

 

william_kent

Well-known member
Nice synth work in this Joe Gibbs tune from 1977


I've always been fond of the first few seconds of this Joe Gibbs tune...


Joe Gibbs and The Professionals - Ten Commandants ( 1979 )

A "I feel dub" nod to a certain Giorgio Moroder production

seques into a slightly dull rhythm that is almost uplifted by the synth pitch bends

but also reminiscent of when King Tubby's invented acid house in 1975 and then gave up on the idea after two seconds...


King Tubby - Invasion ( 1975 )
 
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william_kent

Well-known member
I've posted this elsewhere, but if we going to rewrite history, then "acid house" and techno was invented in France in 1973

but as @blissblogger has noted, does it count if no one noticed?


Igor Wakhevitch - Hathor - Rituel De Guerre Des Esprits De La Terre ( 1973 )
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
but also reminiscent of when King Tubby's invented acid house in 1975 and then gave up on the idea after two seconds...


King Tubby - Invasion ( 1975 )

I knew I had heard something that was totally "dub producer X invents acid house" and I think this must be it. Couldn't dredge it from memory and then did remember the Joe Gibbs tune

There are lots of kinda techno-in-advance or sort-of acieeed-in-advance bits scattered through jazz-fusion records and prog-rock records of the '70s, but it'll be a little moment, a brief flourish - and then they launch into the maximalist multi-segmented thing with tempo-shifts and meter-shifts. In some ways the innovation of acid house is deciding "actually we can make this weird wibbling noise the whole of the tune and just stay stuck on it with no development"

You get them in some soul and funk records too, like this mad bit at the end of the otherwise straightforward clavinet-funk (and awesome) tune "Finders Keepers" by Chairmen of the Board

 

william_kent

Well-known member
in before an un-named poster...


Pink Floyd - On The Run

pains me to even type this, but this VSC 3 may have primed a generation for the frequency and resonance that the TB-303 finally delivered
 

william_kent

Well-known member
well

turkish session musicians invented jungle in 1976, and then decided it was already old hat.


Zafer Dilek - Kazanci Oyun Havasi.


so we're still stuck with the conventional acid / house / techno -> jungle progression?

except JA -> Turkey in this imaginary timeline?
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
so we'll still stuck with the conventional acid / house / techno -> jungle progression?

except JA -> Turkey in this imaginary timeline?

Well, arguably hardcore came before house.

Ilhan Mimaroglu - Wings of the Delirious Demon (1969)


particularly between 6 m and 9 m, pure schizophrenic hissing, creaking, shrieking, 92 amphetamine psychosis.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
actually thinking on that tune it could be both broken beat (when speeded up) and 2010s halftime dnb at its original speed.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
Well, arguably hardcore came before house.

Ilhan Mimaroglu - Wings of the Delirious Demon (1969)


particularly between 6 m and 9 m, pure schizophrenic hissing, creaking, shrieking, 92 amphetamine psychosis.

as a resident of Manchester I'd have to say that, in a revisionist timeline , 'ardcore: kicked off in 1967 with:


Terry Riley - You're No Good

northern soul repurposed for all night trip entertainment

( ok, I know that the source material and production is from the US, but that's just how it goes with house / techno, etc., )

there's an argument that can be made that the first UK raves were at the twisted wheel in Manchester, I've met enough speed freak casualties who will spin you yarns of being "blocked`' on black beauties and the like at all nighters on Brazennose Street
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
as a resident of Manchester I'd have to say that, in a revisionist timeline , 'ardcore: kicked off in 1967 with:


Terry Riley - You're No Good

northern soul repurposed for all night trip entertainment

( ok, I know that the source material and production is from the US, but that's just how it goes with house / techno, etc., )

oh I'm not letting manchester get away with that.

hardcore as such, as frenzied all night dancing to pure hypopolyrhythmic participatory presha started in 3000 BC.

And back to the moroccan territories we go.


The Master Musicians of Jajouka - Your Eyes Are Like a Cup of Tea (Al Yunic Sharbouni Ate)

In fact, this sounds like a 92-93 easygroove set where he would mix trance (when it was fucking hard!) with breakbeats and gabba.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket

Out of Order - Tears

somehow straddling the fine line between 92 ardkore, trance and gabba.

I think sasha and his stupid northern house fad has a lot to answer for. The Welsh as such cannot be forgiven for forestalling the development of this sound. @craner committed the double cardinal sin by trying to justify his love for the cheddar merchants.
 
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