padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
no, it is quite interesting - Mizutani was supposedly (who really knows) offered participation in the highjacking as well but turned it down

that will to extremity is present throughout the Japanese radical left, even compared to the New Left in other places

i.e. the United Red Army, which murdered half its own members in Cultural Revolution-style struggle sessions

Mishima's politics were a mirror image, far-right and ultranationalist, but the process and result were basically the same

Julian Cope's book on Japanese 70s avant-rock is pretty good (better than his krautrock book, in fact) and touches on some of this

the roots of that scene in the cultural milieu of the student movement, radical performance art, avant-garde theatre groups, etc
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
that tradition of artistic extremity continues with GISM, The Gerogerigegege, Hantarash, etc

makes all them legendary Einstürzende Neubauten shows look tame by comparison
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Brian Phillips, a journalist who used to write for Grantland, did a big piece on a trip to Japan where he talked about Koga, the guy who beheaded Mishima. It's been years since I read it, but, iirc, he was still alive at the time of writing and he finds his building,
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I think there were two people involved - the original second (or whatever he's called) kept fucking up the beheading so a replacement stepped in, presumably it was half hanging off by then, I wonder which of the two was Koga.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Anyway, never read Mishima in the end, next thing on the shelf was Stranger in a Strange Land which I've never read before. Not really enjoying it, lots of very didactic bits which explain the philosophy rather than cause you to tease it out for yourself, no real sense of a futuristic world despite it being set 60 years or so ahead of when it was written... also for such a progressive book (apparently) some bits really stick in the craw.
Jill speculating on whether the man from mars would ever get drawn into homo-sexual relationships "She suspected that Mike would grok a "wrong-ness" in the poor in-betweeners anywayhow" - really quite a nasty viewpoint cos grokking a wrongness is what the holy fool does when he recognises that something is fundamentally morally wrong or unnatural in a situation, and he's always right and sees further than others who may not have grasped this deep truth.
Also (same page) when Mike offers to protect he from lecherous men "Nine times out of ten, if a girl gets raped, it's partly her fault. So don't be hasty".
I know those were different times etc etc but still.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
i read the moon is a harsh mistress recently and enjoyed it although the didactic element intrudes there too. ive read stranger in a strange land but i was still a child. i can't remember much except it gave me a weird feeling.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What I always find in these 60s libertarian type books is that there is a lot of fuss made about beyond prejudices and how they kick over the traces of the rules of the time and think that's it... but from this vantage point we can always see that they are still trapped by lots more prejudices. Of course we are now too no doubt... but a) I'm at least trying to be aware of that and b) I'm not claiming to have radically and completely freed myself from the petty constraints of morality
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I'm not claiming to have radically and completely freed myself from the petty constraints of morality
A good rule of thumb is that anyone claiming to be "beyond good and evil" is probably just after an excuse to be evil.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
libetarians arent as a rule, although by saying keep out of the affairs of private individuals they do attract their fair share of peados etc
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
A good rule of thumb is that anyone claiming to be "beyond good and evil" is probably just after an excuse to be evil.
Well that too... but I'm more talking about arrogance of thinking you've escaped the human condition. It's like all those Victorian novels when they say that science has discovered everything, destroyed religion as a primitive superstition, and that we're just about to become our own god.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
Well that too... but I'm more talking about arrogance of thinking you've escaped the human condition. It's like all those Victorian novels when they say that science has discovered everything, destroyed religion as a primitive superstition, and that we're just about to become our own god.
Sure, I see what you mean. The delusion of perfect objectivity. A related thing in sci-fi, particularly in film and TV where images are presented rather than left to the reader's imagination, is where we're asked to believe that some alien architecture or music or language is beyond the human imagination - except it obviously isn't, because it's been imagined by the director, or the artistic director or the person in charge of SFX or sound design or whatever.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
libetarians arent as a rule, although by saying keep out of the affairs of private individuals they do attract their fair share of peados etc
I'm thinking more of your Nietzscheian, magick-with-a-k, do-what-thou-wilt, Crowley/P-orridge types. As opposed to people who whinge on the internet about taxes on sugary drinks.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
the moon is a harsh mistress has lots of long and tedious speeches about the iniquity of taxation
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
the moon is a harsh mistress has lots of long and tedious speeches about the iniquity of taxation
Do you reckon we should all read Atlas Shrugged for Dissensus Book Club?

Or is there a big danger of it being boring? (That being the ultimate and original sin, far worse than merely being ideologically objectionable.)
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
A related thing in sci-fi, particularly in film and TV where images are presented rather than left to the reader's imagination, is where we're asked to believe that some alien architecture or music or language is beyond the human imagination - except it obviously isn't, because it's been imagined by the director, or the artistic director or the person in charge of SFX or sound design or whatever.
Best to leave that kind of thing off screen and out of view I'd say...
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
um, no, i think we should read it, provided it is no more than 300 pages long. although craner will tell us we should read Hayek it's Rand who has had the bigger influence
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
i'd rather not buy it, not that she will profit from sales, being safely dead, but because it's intensely embaressing.
 
Top