Grim Britannia

vimothy

yurp
haha, fair. I could've phrased that less contentiously. what I was trying to get at was that there were certain things that now seem obvious in retrospect but which at the time and from a certain perspective were anything but. eg declaring victory after the invasion. it's not that ppl were instrumentally using ideological positions to further their ends and opting out of them when the need occurred, but that they didnt realise that their perspective was ideological. Rumsfeld's forgotten unknown knowns.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Some interesting 70s grimness in this film:
Lewisham stops the NF, 43 years ago today.
Worth considering that for all that's been said about casual racism in the 70s, they still stopped the NF marching and blew 'em out of the water, numbers wise.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
We're less overtly racist now in verbal expression but the furore about migrants in dinghys makes me wonder how much has actually changed.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I think I hate this sort of YouTube comment more than any other. Any video of Murray, Peterson, Hitchens etc is inundated with them. People falling over themselves waffling about IQ and mannered discussion.

chris mill 1 year ago
How refreshing to hear two grown-ups talking together, after all the juvenile shouting from Antifa, Owen Jones etc.

Eva Zigon 3 weeks ago (edited)
Absolutely brilliant discussion and a real delight to listen to both these incredibly lucid and powerful minds.

Ron Garvin 9 months ago (edited)
Imagine if all politicians had the intelligence and characteristics of gentleman like these, rather than well spoken snake-oil salesmen pandering to groups
Basically, white blokes telling me I'm alright and don't have to give anything up.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
haha, fair. I could've phrased that less contentiously. what I was trying to get at was that there were certain things that now seem obvious in retrospect but which at the time and from a certain perspective were anything but. eg declaring victory after the invasion. it's not that ppl were instrumentally using ideological positions to further their ends and opting out of them when the need occurred, but that they didnt realise that their perspective was ideological. Rumsfeld's forgotten unknown knowns.
Of all of them, Rumsfeld was the least ideological, but this is not the right thread for that discussion.
 

vimothy

yurp
Of all of them, Rumsfeld was the least ideological, but this is not the right thread for that discussion.
'Bear in mind the lesson of Donald Rumsfeld's theory of knowledge - as expounded in March 2003, when the then US defence secretary engaged in a little bit of amateur philosophising: "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." What Rumsfeld forgot to add was the crucial fourth term: the "unknown knowns" - things we don't know that we know, all the unconscious beliefs and prejudices that determine how we perceive reality and intervene in it.'

 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I remember people reacting to that statement as if Rumsfeld had uttered a line of Classical Martian, but he was correct and it's not even like it's a difficult proposition to parse.
 
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