Excellent new 9/11 video

D

droid

Guest
luka said:
if craner was writing to order as opposed to expressing his own views, which happen to match those of the ravelstein foundation your question would be valid, otherwise i'm not so sure.

BTW - how do we know he isnt doing exactly that? Think tanks are notorious for being heavily funded fronts for official propaganda. It wouldnt matter if it was Ahmed Chalabi or Edward Said - taking money off such an organisation immediately puts your motivations under suspicion...
 
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jenks

thread death
I am equally worried about a man blowing out Luka's fine offer of what promises to be the match of the year to go meet an mp.

personally, what with craner's earlier espousal of his love for bellow i wonder if this ravelstein thing is all some elaborate hoax.

course it could all be true and he is getting paid to promulgate views i continue to find hard to stomach. Then again, he'd carry on saying that shit free of charge from all i've read, he's never hidden from a fight (until recently that is).
 

Padraig

Banned
oliver craner said:
Padraig would love to be getting paid to promulgate his political views.

He's just jealous.

Well, I'm an employer actually, and I prefer to self-fund my own activities. That's what I luv.

But thanks for the - mercenary - advice ...
 

Padraig

Banned
oliver craner said:
You've got to find the exact bit of text where I advocate either invading or bombing Iran before I answer that, buddy.

Is this the bit where you pretend to be politically naive?

But Maybe Condi Gets It...

Well, there was some good news yesterday, at any rate.

During her Senate House Hearing, Condoleeza Rice requested $85 million to support Iranian democracy activists and dissidents. A Press Background Briefing suggested that somebody at the State Department had, it seems, at long last, got the message. I say this with certain trepidation and scepticism, but $85 million is a large amount to argue with, and the two anonymous spokesmen who presented the briefing got a number of things right ... [] ... But this is the most constructive Iranian policy that any US Administration has mooted since...well, maybe ever. ===>The Bad Days Will End

Forrest Gump couldn't do better. And you pretend to imagine this will be spent on "spreading democracy" as opposed to its true function, escalating special forces terrorist operations aimed at stoking visceral sectarian conflict, all as a prelude to invasion?

Keep scoffing those freedom fries, joker ...

[Iran's most famous artist and tireless critic of the Iranian regime, Abbas Kiarostami, barred from the US] :
poster2%20abbas%20kiarostami%20abc%20africa%20dvd%20review.jpg


US envoy hints at strike to stop Iran : Bolton says nuclear plant can be 'taken out'

Bolton warns Iran of 'painful consequences': Speaking at a convention of Jewish-Americans, said it is too soon for the U.N. Security Council to impose sanctions on Iran but other countries are talking about doing so and Washington is "beefing up defensive measures to cope with the Iranian nuclear threat."

The USS Ronald Reagan deployed in the Persian Gulf : The U.S. Fifth Fleet said the USS Ronald Reagan has been deployed for maritime security operations in the Gulf region. The nuclear-powered surface vessel headed a carrier group that contains a guided missile cruiser, two destroyers and support ships.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Droid, sure I read that thread about Oliver Craner but it was hardly conclusive was it?

"I am equally worried about a man blowing out Luka's fine offer of what promises to be the match of the year to go meet an mp."

Didn't really turn out that way though did it? Maybe he knew something you didn't.
 
D

droid

Guest
IdleRich said:
Droid, sure I read that thread about Oliver Craner but it was hardly conclusive was it?

Well, I have my doubts of course, but Luka knows the guy, so im assuming its true to some extent.

If Craner wants credibility, then I think the onus is on him to explain himself - hes been awfully quiet since that thread was posted...
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I'm sorry Droid, it's just you kept making me giggle!


And you pretend to imagine this will be spent on "spreading democracy" as opposed to its true function, escalating special forces terrorist operations aimed at stoking visceral sectarian conflict, all as a prelude to invasion?

No, it's just palpably not. If you spent more time reading up on divisions and distinctions within the Bush Administration and the US government generally (I mean, at least on a 'know thy enemy' basis) rather than whacko websites you probably wouldn't sound so silly...but you don't need my advice.

I'd like you to explain how that money will "stoke secterian conflict". Is the State Department going to arm the Kurds, Sufis, Sunnis, Bahais, Zoroastrians? Or what? Or whom? Or how?

The meeting with Ann Clwyd last night was actually a briefing held by Iraqi women trade unionists over here for International Women's Day (which is today).

I don't feel I owe any of you fools an explanation. You obviously believe any old shit.
 
D

droid

Guest
oliver craner said:
The meeting with Ann Clwyd last night was actually a briefing held by Iraqi women trade unionists over here for International Women's Day (which is today).

Well arent you the important political toady... you must feel all warm inside today.

I don't feel I owe any of you fools an explanation. You obviously believe any old shit.

Well - we dont buy most of the crap you spout, so thats obviously not true. :p
 
D

droid

Guest
I also asked for an explanation about this think tank business - still waiting for that though... :confused:

If youve nothing dodgy to hide then why not tell all?
 
D

droid

Guest
Or, since you seem to be playing politician - heres a more direct question: Do you or do you not recieve money from a private organisation in return for promoting and/or researching a particular political viewpoint or ideology?
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Nope.

But if you really want to persist in this idiocy - I suggest you don't - then why not sleuth it out?

Think tanks have websites - that's how they disseminate their studies and articles.

Now, Britain's hardly had its neoconservative moment - so, presumably, there can't be very many neoconservative groups or organisations or, even, people here.

That ought to make your search easier.

I'll buy you a big gift if you work out who pays for my stylish wardrobe.
 
D

droid

Guest
oliver craner said:
Nope.

But if you really want to persist in this idiocy - I suggest you don't - then why not sleuth it out?

I had a quick look round, didnt find anything, and yknow - I really couldnt be arsed. The quickest way was simply to ask you directly - to which you (eventually) replied.

Just to clarify things here, bacause youve put in a bit of a qualification above - do you recieve money from ANY political organisation for ANY reason?

And am I to take it from your response that Lukas' full of shit then?

If so, why didnt you just post a denial on his thread?

Think tanks have websites - that's how they disseminate their studies and articles.

Now, Britain's hardly had its neoconservative moment - so, presumably, there can't be very many neoconservative groups or organisations or, even, people here.

LOL...

I know of at least one... I never said your non-existent think tank was 'neoconservative' either btw...
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Luke likes winding people up - end of story.

I hoped you'd work that out.

I didn't think it would need denying.

Oh well.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
I should add that I'm not a neoconservative and that you must be getting me confused with Douglas Murray.

And, that's about it.

Bye!
 
D

droid

Guest
oliver craner said:
Luke likes winding people up - end of story.

I hoped you'd work that out.

How the fuck am I to know? He seemed genuinely pissed off, and gave no indication it was a joke - I dont know him personally y'know - and Ive encountered think tankers before on the net...

I didn't think it would need denying.

Oh well.

On the contrary - it made perfect sense. Why else would an otherwise obviously knowledgable mid-east commentator like yourself take some of the positions youve taken? :p

FWIW - sorry for dragging your name through the mud.

Luka - youre a spa! :p
 

Padraig

Banned
oliver craner said:
And you pretend to imagine this will be spent on "spreading democracy" as opposed to its true function, escalating special forces terrorist operations aimed at stoking visceral sectarian conflict, all as a prelude to invasion?

No, it's just palpably not. If you spent more time reading up on divisions and distinctions within the Bush Administration and the US government generally (I mean, at least on a 'know thy enemy' basis) rather than whacko websites you probably wouldn't sound so silly...but you don't need my advice.

I'd like you to explain how that money will "stoke secterian conflict". Is the State Department going to arm the Kurds, Sufis, Sunnis, Bahais, Zoroastrians? Or what? Or whom? Or how?

... I don't feel I owe any of you fools an explanation. You obviously believe any old shit.

death%20squads.jpeg


US Marines Probe Tensions among Iran's Minorities
By Guy Dinmore
The Financial Times

Thursday 23 February 2006
---Extracts---

The intelligence wing of the US marines has launched a probe into Iran's ethnic minorities at a time of heightened tensions along the border with Iraq and friction between capitals.

Iranian activists involved in a classified research project for the marines told the FT the Pentagon was examining the depth and nature of grievances against the Islamic government, and appeared to be studying whether Iran would be prone to a violent fragmentation along the same kind of fault lines that are splitting Iraq.

The research effort comes at a critical moment between Iran and the US. Last week the Bush administration asked Congress for $75m to promote democratic change within Iran, having already mustered diplomatic support at the UN to counter Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program.
...
US intelligence experts suggested the marines' effort could indicate early stages of contingency plans for a ground assault on Iran. Or it could be an attempt to evaluate the implications of the unrest in Iranian border regions for marines stationed in Iraq, as well as Iranian infiltration.

Other experts affiliated to the Pentagon suggest the investigation merely underlines that diverse intelligence wings of the US military were seeking to justify their existence at a time of plentiful funding.

Lieutenant-Colonel Rick Long, a Marines spokesman, confirmed that the marines had commissioned Hicks and Associates, a defense contractor, to conduct two research projects into Iraqi and Iranian ethnic groups.
...
Marine Corps Intelligence defines its role as focusing "on crises and pre-deployment support to expeditionary warfare". It also provides threat and technical intelligence assessments for the Marines.

The first study, on Iraq, was completed in late 2003, more than six months after marines spearheaded the US invasion. About 23,000 marines are still in Iraq. The Iran study was finished late last year.

Hicks and Associates is a wholly owned subsidiary of Science Applications International Corp, one of the biggest US defense contractors and deeply involved in the prewar planning for Iraq.

The Strategic Assessment Center of Hicks and Associates advertises one of its current projects as the "Impact of Foreign Cultures on Military Operations". SAIC confirmed it completed the confidential studies for the Marine Corps.

While most analysts would agree that Iran has a far stronger sense of national identity than Iraq, its ethnic mix is even more complex than its neighbor.
...


Last month two bombs exploded in Ahvaz, the capital of Khuzestan province close to Iraq. Eight people were killed on the same day that President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad had been due to visit. Six people were killed in bombings last October. Oil installations have been attacked. Iran has repeatedly accused the UK and US of being behind the violence, using separatist Arab groups in southern Iraq to foment instability inside Iran.

"We are very suspicious of British forces' involvement in terrorist activities," Mr. Ahmadi-Nejad was quoted as saying last October. He accused British troops in Iraq of "hiring terrorists for sabotage".
...
Last October, the conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI) held a conference chaired by Michael Ledeen, a proponent of regime change in Iran. It triggered uproar among exiled opposition groups, especially Persian nationalists. Mr. Ledeen called the conference "Another case for Federalism?" and denied that AEI was seeking to foment separatism.

Reuel Gerecht, also with AEI and a former CIA specialist on the Middle East, says the State Department under Condoleezza Rice, and not the Pentagon, is running Iran policy. He said State was "several steps removed" from discussing covert action and "nowhere near the point" of trying to use separatist tendencies among minorities as traction against the Tehran regime. No one knew whether that would work, he added.

However, he complimented the Pentagon for "looking down the road".

A former intelligence officer said the Marines' probe reflected the "contingency planning" mindset of the US military. Nonetheless, he said, it was important to note that the ultimate purpose of the intelligence wing was "to support effective ground military operations by the Marine Corps".
...
biglangerbein.jpg
 
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