Why Conspiracy Theories?

[luka]

Or is it the inevitable byproduct of 30 years of neoliberalism / "there is no such thing as society"? Which has been specifically engineered by the wealthy to ensure than any kind of collective solidarity is obliterated?

Worth pointing out that @craner to give one, fairly representative example of a major right wing thinker/intellectual characterises this account of neoliberalism as inherently conspiratorial.

 

[luka]

the right wing, including right wing moderates like Barty, consider any understanding of politics that rest on the wealthy 'specifically engineering' anything whatsoever is inherently conspiratorial.

 

[vimothy]

its obvs isomorphic to blaming it all on the (((jews))))

 

[vimothy]

hence, "antisemitism is the socialism of fools"

 

[luka]

its obvs isomorphic to blaming it all on the (((jews))))

its also isomorphic to slaves blaming their slavery on the slave owners or workers blaming it all on their bosses or a beaten dog blaming it all on the man with the stick

 

[john eden]

@luka well it is the conspiracy thread tbf. we can discuss all that of course and perhaps “specifically engineered” is overstating it. But the “no such thing as society” / everyone an entrepreneur / privatisation agenda is surely uncontroversial.

 

[luka]

@luka well it is the conspiracy thread tbf. we can discuss all that of course and perhaps “specifically engineered” is overstating it. But the “no such thing as society” / everyone an entrepreneur / privatisation agenda is surely uncontroversial.

Uncontroversial to me. But not to my friends on the right. Vimothy has just called you a violent anti Semite for example

 

[vimothy]

exactly, it's about finding a specific group of ppl who are to blame for all your ills

 

[luka]

To my friends on the right, whether it's the moderate right like Barty, or the far right like vim, it's always conspiratorial to think there is such a thing as mutually opposed interests within society. Your problems are always your own or are inherent to the human situation.

 

[john eden]

Uncontroversial to me. But not to my friends on the right. Vimothy has just called you a violent anti Semite for example

Well he hasn’t but let’s look at that kind of personalisation

the point I was making is that we would do better to focus our attention on individuals like Boris Johnson, Cummings, Etc. As a cipher for a class of people.

This was in response to Tea’s fury at the lone grafittist and handful of anti-maskers. Which could also be read as a cipher for some elements of another class of people.

I also raised the issue of a systemic analysis vs an individualist one of personal morality. obviously I think in that context the former is more useful than the latter.

but not if some oik has spray painted anti vax slogans on your garage door.

 

[vimothy]

on the far right, the conspiracy is real - they believe in it. the moderates critique it on the basis of it being a conspiracy. the left critique it on the basis of it blaming the wrong group.

 

[john eden]

It is also more about processes than people but Tea struggles to see that so you have to meet him half way. He probably won’t read this bit though and will go off on one about Corbyn hating Jews.

 

[luka]

I'm always the person to ask if you want to know how the right think cos of all my friends on that side of the fence.

 

[vimothy]

the leftist view is that its structural, hence the famous quote about the antisemitism of fools. but that quote also highlights the obvious similarity, hence the moderate critique of both

 

[luka]

The fact that you can identify the wrong enemy doesn't mean there is no enemy, the real enemy is the reptilians

 

[vimothy]

in which case the moderates will tell you that it's a conspiracy theory, the far right will tell you the reptilians are actually the Jews and the far left will tell you that the reptilians are the controlling class who arise out of the system of social relations that embody the capitalist mode of production

 

[vimothy]

theyll all be wrong ofc bc we know it's actually the reptilians, but that's what theyll tell you all the same

 

[luka]

Yeah I know I've talked with all these people

 

[vimothy]

yeah I know you know luka, I'm just explaining for anyone who doesnt that I'm not anti conspiracy theories

 

[vimothy]

"kill the guards and walk"