luka

Well-known member
Staff member
So this

do i not do something because i am told/expected/propagandised to do it? the mature thing is to be able to do something for one's good in spite of being instructed to do it - and that can grate.

I view in terms of, well, you could characterise it as God or heaven that is making these demands
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
This is what this not very good poem in miracle salads is getting at. The anguish of this fait accompli


The price
obidience,dearest of all sacrifices.
no ownership of action save
that obedience is offered freely
though threat of Fall looms as
the menace behind the pact.

To adhere to the circle of that spotlight
moving as it moves, dancing within that white disc-
disavowing all the growling, fierce pleasures
of the dark.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You have to forsake, if you enter this contract, the standard conception of freedom and accept that you're going to be really quite constrained, because you have to track the light and the more successful you are at that the more catastrophic any fall becomes
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Because the situation you are locked into is, this state of being you value is dependent on doing a b and c and avoiding d e and f.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Which, as an individual is a deal you either accept or don't. But interpersonally is where this can become something you want to impose as a universal standard. This is the path of light and virtue and everything else is degeneracy. This is where our Josef K ended up and it's the wellspring of psychedelic fascism.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
what i don't accept is audre lorde's "self-care" idea whereby wellness is political act to preserve an individual who believes themselves to be under attack by the state. presupposes that the system actively wants to crush some people - and i've never been a fan of conspiracy theories.

Well, respectfully, it presupposes that some people feel like they are under attack by the state. And that the state always behaves in a way that is in its best interest.

I completely empathise with some people who were at my daughter's school who feel like they were under attack by the state - as overwhelmingly their interactions with the state have been pretty bleak.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
I'm not thinking in terms of evil capitalism. More in terms of how the wellness lifestyle involves a tracking of the light and how that can rigidify into dogma and intolerance

Fisting included

 

Matthew

FKA Woebot
Well, respectfully, it presupposes that some people feel like they are under attack by the state.
that's true, i'm sure. but that you chose that particular expression is significant.

conspiracy theories presuppose that there is some conscious organisation behind these currents. but everyone is the subject of forces beyond their control. some have the good fortune, like us in the modern west (democrats and republicans all), to be on the right side of the tracks. but in a few generations that can easily change.

it's easy to fall for the idea that we are victims of someone else's cunning - but it's largely an illusion. and that's why i don't buy lorde's argument in fact - and why i don't think it's a helpful one for anyone to think that they are actively under attack.

here's a good example. i just read edward bernays "propaganda" - it has a glowing review from noam chomsky on the cover because, applauding bernays for his "honesty", it tells him EXACTLY the bad news that he wants to hear.

but actually the book is nothing more than bernays' most ambitious sales pitch for his services. like david ogilvy's books it's a purely promotional gimmick designed to give the impression to various bodies that bernays can control the public's mind. and that they should hire him and pay his fees. bullshit from start to finish - i doubt bernays believed a word of it and only a sucker would fall for it.

also, as i think i've mentioned here in the past, i went to school with these people and while they are myopic, greedy and self-interested - brilliant minds they are not. they struggle valiantly to maintain the status quo and try (through ceremony) to reassure themselves and create the impression that they are succeeding by their own agency - but they're just riding the currents like everyone else.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
while they are myopic, greedy and self-interested - brilliant minds they are not. they struggle valiantly to maintain the status quo and try (through ceremony) to reassure themselves and create the impression that they are succeeding by their own agency - but they're just riding the currents like everyone else.

Are you talking about Jacob Rees-Mogg?
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
Barry sent me an article by, by, alistair Campbell saying Rees Mogg snr actually is a genius and they are all following his script
 
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