Martin Hannett

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
I've been listening to some Joy Division and it was dreadful
couldn't think why I ever liked them

now I've just listened to Unknown Pleasures and I remember why
it's because of Martin Hannett

the meaty bass, the reverberating drums, the vocal effects, the noises
and somehow Barnie gets to sound like a guitar hero

awesome

Joy Division actually sounded nothing like this :D
 

swears

preppy-kei
I think Ulrich Schauss should do some production work with a band. If we still have to have bands, then at least they could sound good.
 

Logos

Ghosts of my life
subvert47 said:
I've been listening to some Joy Division and it was dreadful
couldn't think why I ever liked them

now I've just listened to Unknown Pleasures and I remember why
it's because of Martin Hannett

the meaty bass, the reverberating drums, the vocal effects, the noises
and somehow Barnie gets to sound like a guitar hero

awesome

Joy Division actually sounded nothing like this :D

There was a Hannett retrospective cd issued recently I think. I see what you are getting at. I never really liked Joy Division except where they got uptempo and so unfunky they were funky, - on Transmission and She's Lost Control - and that has got a lot to do with the Hannett (especially the drums on Lost Control) and also Stephen Morris's drumming.

When they got into dirges they were mediocre.

Anyway New Order were ten times better than Joy Division.
 

owen

Well-known member
if this becomes a martin hannett thread it could be quite interesting

If we still have to have bands, then at least they could sound good.
yes, this would be nice

JD totally hated the production on Unknown Pleasures- the muting of the guitars esp...all the lift effects, the footsteps down doorways, industrial noise and broken glass- ie most of the things that make it a great record- all have nothing to do with the band themselves. though listening to live tapes they were quite something on their own terms, if a vastly more ragged thing- there's a real urgency, to the point where you can really see the epileptic dancing- they sound more like a no wave band if anything.

all the early 80s Hannett productions are fantastic (even OMD), also good are the things he did with his 'band' the invisible girls backing pauline murray and john cooper clarke- very clattery and atmospheric, a sort of murky sub-disco. lovely. oh and ESG!
 

subvert47

I don't fight, I run away
owen said:
listening to live tapes they were quite something on their own terms, if a vastly more ragged thing- there's a real urgency, to the point where you can really see the epileptic dancing

yes, with live Joy Division you never really noticed anyone but Ian Curtis – he had great stage presence and it didn't really matter that he couldn't sing

owen said:
all the early 80s Hannett productions are fantastic (even OMD), also good are the things he did with his 'band' the invisible girls backing pauline murray and john cooper clarke- very clattery and atmospheric, a sort of murky sub-disco. lovely. oh and ESG!

also the 12" version of ACR's Flight – really late night, Central Park in the Dark sort of feel to it
 

swears

preppy-kei
subvert47 said:
yes, with live Joy Division you never really noticed anyone but Ian Curtis – he had great stage presence and it didn't really matter that he couldn't sing

The whole point was that he coudn't sing. If he'd had a pitch perfect voice, then the whole chemistry of the band would have been completely different.
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
swears said:
The whole point was that he coudn't sing. If he'd had a pitch perfect voice, then the whole chemistry of the band would have been completely different.

... and thier sound came from him having such a deep voice, in addition to the fact that the most musically competent member of the band was stephen morris. Owen's right, they sound like a no-wave band but it's just expediency: 4 inexperienced musicians trying to sound as un-shit as possible with the limited resources to hand.

I've got loads to write about this but it will have to wait. For now I'll just say that picking fault with this or that aspect of thier sound can't diminish them - because there's never been a band where the whole was so vastly, improbably more that the sum of the parts, and for me that's the real reason why JD are the greatest band ever.
 

soundslike1981

Well-known member
I think I've reached the point where any desire I had to understand why Joy Division are held in such esteem as a post-punk band--to the level that I think most people who're only slightly familiar with the concept of "post-punk" probably think of Joy Division as the defining band--has completely run its course. I don't get it--and in the end I feel like it has quite a lot to do with the mystique/suicide factor/moodiness of our teenage years, that is to say rather traditional Rock'N'Roll tropes, none of which hold any appeal for me.

Initially, I thought Hannet's production was one of the only interesting things about them. But at this point, I consider his "icy" post-punk aesthetic one of the less interesting of the multiplicity of possible sounds covered by the umbrella.

The only JD I get the urge to hear now are the BBC recordings, which I assume are Hannett-less.
 

soundslike1981

Well-known member
I'll have to give Hannett his credit on other more innately lively, less po-faced acts like ESG and (post-81) ACR. Hiw sound seems one of the more imitable, though--probably why it's often the defacto mode for "post-punk revivalists".
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
soundslike1981 said:
The only JD I get the urge to hear now are the BBC recordings, which I assume are Hannett-less.

Try also Les Bains Douches (easily the best JD live recording) and the unreleased album they cut as Warsaw for RCA. I got it on a bootleg in the early 90s but I think it has come out officially now, maybe as part of a box set or something.

JD without hannett were a very different band - very brutal, physical & heavy. The physicality of their sound gets downplayed in the studio stuff, which is a shame.
 

swears

preppy-kei
The best sounding band at the moment are Soulwax. They also have beautiful Op-Art record sleeves and are snappy, preppy dressers. Coincidence? I think not.
 

mms

sometimes
swears said:
The best sounding band at the moment are Soulwax. They also have beautiful Op-Art record sleeves and are snappy, preppy dressers. Coincidence? I think not.

are you in soulwax or something - you reckon 2 many djs are the best ever too..??
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
I remain fascinated with the Hannett-Joy Div production aesthetic intersection tho- sure he'd try out a similar sounds on other bands, but that precise feel was never the same... in attempting to describe it I am actually lost for the precise words... some people talk dub spaciousness, well there is space, certainly, but it feels so distinct from dub, the bass has almost zero bass resonance, (esp on Closer the bassiest thing is certain treated drum sounds...) and while it is a much copied sound (allegedly) no one even approximates it (as discussed on some other thread round abouts here...) the bass and drums (the "hot" R'n'R instrumentation) is rendered cold like scalpels, whilst the drums, vocals, and industrial sewage pipe clatter sfx attempt (and fail) to fill the rest of the sound stage... coming to this music as a 15 yr old it felt like the most purely evil shit I'd ever heard, (and trust me that's a great thing) foreboding way beyond any mere simple antihero-suicide mythos... (at the same kind of time Nirvana or The Doors meant literally nothing to me) and it was the sound of it, far more than the scales, chords, lyrics, and rhythms which created that implacably sinister atmosphere... and none of the goth follow up bands, (Cure) 00s copyists (hello Interpol!) or other Hannett productions (greetings Slaughter and the Dogs...) got anywhere near... I still cannot find the correct words, and indeed no longer feel any need to listen to these records, but still that sense of evil shining in a pool of alien negative (sonic, emotional) space remains... and that is almost the very best thing about it- its copyists can't quite describe it, to draw up a blueprint of it is to create merely the banal, the actuality simply evades...
 
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soundslike1981

Well-known member
Gabba Flamenco Crossover said:
Try also Les Bains Douches (easily the best JD live recording) and the unreleased album they cut as Warsaw for RCA. I got it on a bootleg in the early 90s but I think it has come out officially now, maybe as part of a box set or something.

JD without hannett were a very different band - very brutal, physical & heavy. The physicality of their sound gets downplayed in the studio stuff, which is a shame.


I've had the Warsaw for many years and I give it a go every now and then--can't say it does a lot for me. The BBC recordings reach that fine balance between strength and diffusion; Warsaw is a little brutalist, and it doesn't really sound intentional. Jeez I sound like a snob saying that. I like some un-self-consciously brutal sounds, just not Warsaw for whatever reason.

A friend who's much more into JD (largely because of a mid-80s obsession with New Order) has recommended that live recording. Maybe I'll have to "borrow" it. . .


Weirdly, given my relative disinterest in JD, I actually really like that first New Order album 'Movement' which "sounds" Divisionish. Was that Hannett produced?
 

soundslike1981

Well-known member
gek-opel said:
I remain fascinated with the Hannett-Joy Div production aesthetic intersection tho- sure he'd try out a similar sounds on other bands, but that precise feel was never the same... in attempting to describe it I am actually lost for the precise words... some people talk dub spaciousness, well there is space, certainly, but it feels so distinct from dub, the bass has almost zero bass resonance, (esp on Closer the bassiest thing is certain treated drum sounds...) and while it is a much copied sound (allegedly) no one even approximates it (as discussed on some other thread round abouts here...) the bass and drums (the "hot" R'n'R instrumentation) is rendered cold like scalpels, whilst the drums, vocals, and industrial sewage pipe clatter sfx attempt (and fail) to fill the rest of the sound stage... coming to this music as a 15 yr old it felt like the most purely evil shit I'd ever heard, (and trust me that's a great thing) foreboding way beyond any mere simple antihero-suicide mythos... (at the same kind of time Nirvana or The Doors meant literally nothing to me) and it was the sound of it, far more than the scales, chords, lyrics, and rhythms which created that implacably sinister atmosphere... and none of the goth follow up bands, (Cure) 00s copyists (hello Interpol!) or other Hannett productions (greetings Slaughter and the Dogs...) got anywhere near... I still cannot find the correct words, and indeed no longer feel any need to listen to these records, but still that sense of evil shining in a pool of alien negative (sonic, emotional) space remains... and that is almost the very best thing about it- its copyists can't quite describe it, to draw up a blueprint of it is to create merely the banal, the actuality simply evades...


I very much like the idea of a visceral response to the sound-stage itself (as differenciated from the music). I always wanted to have that feeling with JD, given how many of my music-friends seemed to get it. I'm going to listen again tomorrow, who knows, maybe I'll be ready.
 

swears

preppy-kei
mms said:
are you in soulwax or something - you reckon 2 many djs are the best ever too..??

I dunno, I just think they've got the midas touch, their mash up mixes are probably the least interesting thing about them. They're not the best DJs out there, but definately up there in the "big club nights out that aren't shit" department.

My fave DJs would have to be Micronauts and Ivan Smagge at the moment.

Anyway.....Martin Hannet, erm...great isn't he?
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Its weird but some music remains listenable over a long period of time, others is very much "phase music"- inspiring obsessional devotion but only for a relatively brief period of time... JD appear very much in the latter category... I might suggest that it is a "teenage thing" however some friends of mine got into them much later than that, and had a similar obsessive year or so...
 
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