Fuck me. At no point have I said that a music scene must work one way or the other. I spent nearly 2 years helping to stage parties in Berlin - we never made a dime, and indeed that wasn't the point. But what about those that want to do more? What about the next big thing? If we view view music and its methods of production/distribution differently, I'd say mine is just that bit more catholic than yours - I certainly see nothing progressive in locking things down to one means of production over another.
Myspace to sell music online using paypal
- Thread starter the undisputed truth
- Start date
Fuck me. At no point have I said that a music scene must work one way or the other. I spent nearly 2 years helping to stage parties in Berlin - we never made a dime, and indeed that wasn't the point. But what about those that want to do more? What about the next big thing? If we view view music and its methods of production/distribution differently, I'd say mine is just that bit more catholic than yours - I certainly see nothing progressive in locking things down to one means of production over another.
Gabba Flamenco Crossover
High Sierra Skullfuck
Well, I tried this, a few years ago. I had a great idea for an online techno label putting out the music of me and a few others. I couldnt get a distribution deal, so the website was critical to the whole concept; it was the label's window on the world. And I just found that implementing it was an absolute nightmare. I spent ages reading about HTML, trying to learn dreamweaver, troubleshooting technical problems, etc, until it was affecting both the quality & quantity of my music. When I took my plan for an online shop to friends & contacts who work in web design, hoping to cadge some favours, I was told to forget it: it was several grand's worth of work, even at mate's rates. Even with a drastically cut down site plan, I still managed to piss off some good friends with my badgering - and without the online shop, it was pointless to be honest. The whole experience was extremely hard.
Like you say, you can just keep it basic - but then there's nothing to raise you above the background noise of the 'net, so your site is invisible. For it to work, it needs to be both an engaging visual representation of your aesthetic and a slick facilitator of any transactions that take place on-site. There are some musicians who have the skills to build a site like that without taking away from thier music, and good luck to them, but if you set that as the bar that every musician has to get over in order to have a web presence, lots & lots of people will fail. I'm pretty technical - I'm studying engineering, I make techno on a PC, I use software like Reaktor that's complex by any standards - so if I can't do it, the vast majority of musicians will be stumped without outside help.
This can be expanded into a critique of the DIY aesthetic as a whole (OT but bear with me, this is going somewhere). DIY artists are expected to master promotion, marketing, manufacturing, technical support, accounting and networking, with no regard to their actual ability in those fields, in addition to making the music in the first place, and holding down a straight job if it doesnt pay the bills. With the decline of indie labels and general fragmentation of the underground music scene, this one-man-band approach seems to have become the norm for emerging artists but in most cases I think it just cripples them as musicians. What's more, it allows major labels to lower their risk exposure by signing artists further down the path, once some kind of audience is already in place - and often when the artist is so exhausted from running the show on thier own, and so desperate to get shot of this workload, that they'll sign up to deals that they wouldnt normally have touched with a bargepole. PR, accounting, networking etc are difficult, time-consuming and, to be frank, dull - that's why there are highly paid professionals in each of those fields.
Some artists like Fugazi are capable of operating independently for years and years, and their music is unaffected (often feeds off it in fact), but if that's the level of commitment that's required to operate then a lot of musicians will just not bother, and that damages underground music as a whole. Musicians need infrastructure - that's what has been lacking over the last decade, and (party) why music is currently in such a state. If the underground isnt capable of building it's own then it must co-opt the structures built by others - probably people, like Rupert Murdoch, that you wouldn't really want to share a pint with.
This argument about using the enemy's tools is as old as revolutionary politics itself - it's the central dilemma of the RIU&SA era, and it's recurring here in a different form. There's no right or wrong answer because each person needs to decide for themselves where they draw the line, and where refusal to use a particular service becomes self-defeating. If people don't want to use myspace because Murdoch owns it then I respect that, but if you're waiting for a service with a reach and power comparable to myspace that's totally untainted by the hand of global kapital.. I'm sorry, but I think you'll be waiting a long, long time.
swears
preppy-kei
Well, I see what you mean, and agree with most of your points. But a basic site as an alternative or an addition to the already basic MySpace profile is what I'm getting at.
Just the practical idea that if you like the tunes on the profile you could click a link to the 100% independent site were the MP3s or FLACS are cheaper than MySpace and the musician gets all the cash without middlemen. There's plenty of people like Binarpilot who I've just googled after reading about in a blog and then bought some music from.
The whole idea of MySpace taking a cut seems like a really flimsy scam.
Just the practical idea that if you like the tunes on the profile you could click a link to the 100% independent site were the MP3s or FLACS are cheaper than MySpace and the musician gets all the cash without middlemen. There's plenty of people like Binarpilot who I've just googled after reading about in a blog and then bought some music from.
The whole idea of MySpace taking a cut seems like a really flimsy scam.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
That site is not the best example of what most musicians would be able to knock up for themselves...
the undisputed truth
Banned
I'm actually a musician of sorts and saving money has little to do with it. You heard it here first
. The suffering I'm talking about is the equivalent of paying your dues. Stuff like sending out demos, not getting replies, getting rejected, doing crap gigs for nobody, getting stiffed for payment by a label or distributor. Making tunes and selling them on myspace isn't a due paying process.I'm more inclined to do what swears suggests but also make tunes available on myspace and as many download sites as possible. I also used the high cost and maintenance of a site, the learning of business practises as taking musicians away from the music argument to make a point about how hard it is for a musician to learn how to set up and run a digital label on another forum. I was countered by another musician who said, nah it's easy. Send me a quid and I'll send you a tune, digital label 101 in effect. deal done!
At some stage though you couldn't keep doing that if you're shifting major units but then you'd just pay someone else to do it.Didn't Prince and Bowie set up exclusive sites early on ? selling only their own stuff? I think it might have been like an on-line club where you pay membership fees and can then download. I think I also remember a few people only paying once, getting all the tunes and putting them all over the p2p sites.
Can I just point out that link shows that even on those revenues, Napster still managed to LOSE $9.8m in a quarter. It's far from profitable. All these big stores and services are massively leveraging themselves at the moment attempting to find a big digital pot of gold for their VCs in the long run.
iTunes, however, doesn't care that its (for better or worse) market-leading store barely breaks even when a 10% margin on a 79p download is dwarfed by a 30% margin on a £250 iPod which people fill up with ripped CDs and p2p downloads anyway. It's symptomatic of a greater malaise that Apple and the supermarkets - the two retailers showing growth in music and suffocating artists and the independents in the process - are the ones who really, really, don't give a fuck about it other than as a loss leader.
Has anyone mentioned the long tail yet? In essence the theory runs that a the cost of storing product (in this case- music) reaches towards zero (as it does with digital stores) then it is possible to offer more and more- and crucially the most profit comes in offering the stuff at the end of the tail--- ie the most obscure stuff... explanation in further detail here... http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html Murdoch appears to be merging the far reaches of this theory with the Web 2.0 dream of user-generated content to create some kind of potential economic uber-beast... where the long tail is generated by the producers themselves, and they promote it for free... complete and utter genius. If the theory is correct Murdoch stands to make unbelievable amounts of money out of this.
swears
preppy-kei
Also, it's harder to find pirate downloads of obscure stuff. There's loads of things in my soulseek wish list that I've read about, that never show up as found files. If I want a copy of SWV's "Right Here" I can d/l one of about 100 results, but some obscure vinyl-only minimal techno track is gonna be harder to get.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I know it's a slightly different thing, but is there any gossip on how well Bleep is actually doing? If it's doing well, it suggests that there might be mileage in the moderate-sized-indie-running-mp3-shop-for-themselves-and-similar-but-maybe-rather-smaller-indies. Which would be a good start towards a DIY digital distribution network...
Ness Rowlah
Norwegian Wood
Depending on what the cut to Murdoch is and provided there is no DRM
I agree. MySpace is "The One" when it comes for bands and hangers-around
to (well) hang around and the average artist doesn't have the resources
to set up and maintain a website (not to mention micropayment).
If this is all using PayPal or Google's new pay mechanism and made
easy to use it could be a success. AND as you say money directly into
the artists pockets (where they should have ended up in the first place).
--- previous dissensus threads on MP3 fairness here and here .
S
simon silverdollar
Guest
i met tom from bleep a few months back and he said it was all going really well and that loads more labels were getting interested in coming on board- no details, though, sorry!
bassnation
the abyss
on the contrary there are plenty of musicians who couldn't give a shit about making lots of money, especially if it meant compromise.
all the scenes i've been involved with have either rejected the corporate route (hardcore punk with its "pay no more than x" stickers and refusal to allow records to be sold in HMV) or built their own alternative economy (hardcore rave and techno).
people sell up and give in way too easily. theres a lot at stake here. murdoch is neither an idiot or especially benevolent.
I am not saying that artists shouldn't get paid, but to expect people to cheer murdoch as the future of music sticks in my throat somewhat. everyones entitled to their own opinion but to me its a sign of the stagnation and corporate takeover of music when this is perceived as a Good Thing.
This seems to be up and running now:
Start Selling Your Music on MySpace
Body: Hey MySpace artists,
Music has always been at the heart of the MySpace community. As an artist, you have a place to connect directly with music lovers and build a fan base. Now, through our partnership with SNOCAP, you can sell digital downloads right on your MySpace page. This is something we’ve wanted to bring to you for a long time, and now it’s here!
It’s really simple. Just click the “Create Your MySpace Music Store” link on your Home page to register with SNOCAP (or click here), upload your music, and set your price. Your store will be automatically created on your MySpace profile right underneath the MySpace player, and a new “Manage Music Store” link will appear on your home page which lets you edit your songs or change the price. Once you’ve created your store your fans will be able to purchase your tracks right off your profile and even post your store on their own profiles, and you’ll get paid on a monthly basis. Click The Format
to check it out.
You don’t need to wait to have a CD’s worth of music to sell. Record something tonight and make it available immediately. Or upload a few tracks from the soundboard recording of your last show. A MySpace/SNOCAP MyStore puts the power of distribution in your hands. And best of all, it doesn’t limit any of your choices. You can still stream up to 4 tracks for free from the MySpace player on your page. You keep all the rights to your music. And this isn’t exclusive – you can put a MySpace/SNOCAP MyStore on your MySpace page and paste the store anywhere else on the web you use for promotion; plus you can also sell through an aggregator or any other digital retailer you have access to.
You already use MySpace to market & promote – now you can sell your songs!
Tom
Start Selling Your Music on MySpace
Body: Hey MySpace artists,
Music has always been at the heart of the MySpace community. As an artist, you have a place to connect directly with music lovers and build a fan base. Now, through our partnership with SNOCAP, you can sell digital downloads right on your MySpace page. This is something we’ve wanted to bring to you for a long time, and now it’s here!
It’s really simple. Just click the “Create Your MySpace Music Store” link on your Home page to register with SNOCAP (or click here), upload your music, and set your price. Your store will be automatically created on your MySpace profile right underneath the MySpace player, and a new “Manage Music Store” link will appear on your home page which lets you edit your songs or change the price. Once you’ve created your store your fans will be able to purchase your tracks right off your profile and even post your store on their own profiles, and you’ll get paid on a monthly basis. Click The Format
to check it out.
You don’t need to wait to have a CD’s worth of music to sell. Record something tonight and make it available immediately. Or upload a few tracks from the soundboard recording of your last show. A MySpace/SNOCAP MyStore puts the power of distribution in your hands. And best of all, it doesn’t limit any of your choices. You can still stream up to 4 tracks for free from the MySpace player on your page. You keep all the rights to your music. And this isn’t exclusive – you can put a MySpace/SNOCAP MyStore on your MySpace page and paste the store anywhere else on the web you use for promotion; plus you can also sell through an aggregator or any other digital retailer you have access to.
You already use MySpace to market & promote – now you can sell your songs!
Tom
iTunes etc. perhaps not doing as well as you might imagine - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/11/digital_downloads_flatline - although lines such as It may reflect a seasonal bounce that hasn't yet manifested itself. However, it might not. are hardly indicative of a watertight argument.
From the above: "the ability to obtain pirated music is now so widespread the DRM looks to consumers more like a problem than a benefit."
Well, duh.
Swears: the problem with linking to another site (rather than selling through MySpace) is it will require another sign-up / payment scheme. Its enough to frustrate or dissuade most people.
Gek: good article on Long Tail, cheers.
Well, duh.
Swears: the problem with linking to another site (rather than selling through MySpace) is it will require another sign-up / payment scheme. Its enough to frustrate or dissuade most people.
Gek: good article on Long Tail, cheers.