swears

preppy-kei
I think she's well overrated, it's gonna be one of those things people are embarassed about liking a couple of years later, and pretend they weren't really into it, like Gay Dad or something. It's got all the indie-hipster grup Pitchfork reference points hasn't it? She's mates with Devendra Bernhart, worked with Van Dyke Parks, is suitably "kooky" and distainful of modern life in a Jack White luddite kinda way. And that awful, awful, annoying voice.
I mean isn't this the 15th folk revival there's been since the sixties? Aren't people getting sick of it by now?
 
D

dubversion

Guest
Surely it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater to say that just because someone gets painted into a particular scene, that they're inevitably worthless?
 

swears

preppy-kei
Heh, depends on the scene doesn't it? And those Pitchfork indie-head types should be the first against the wall.
 

blunt

shot by both sides
I think she's well overrated, it's gonna be one of those things people are embarassed about liking a couple of years later, and pretend they weren't really into it, like Gay Dad or something. It's got all the indie-hipster grup Pitchfork reference points hasn't it? She's mates with Devendra Bernhart, worked with Van Dyke Parks, is suitably "kooky" and distainful of modern life in a Jack White luddite kinda way.

Was anyone really into Gay Dad?

Sure, she's a kook, but I don't think there can be any doubt she's the real deal. I certainly don't see her sitting down with a checklist of references. And even if she did, they're not the sort of references that anyone would expect to turn to gold.

I mean isn't this the 15th folk revival there's been since the sixties? Aren't people getting sick of it by now?

I honestly can't think of anyone or anything since the sixties that sounds like the latest album. That may well say more about my points-of-reference than it does about anything else. But if I think of folk, I certainly don't hear anything like Ys in my head.

And, for the record, just cos you don't like it doesn't mean that everyone else must be pretending. Horses for courses, eh :)
 

swears

preppy-kei
....And, for the record, just cos you don't like it doesn't mean that everyone else must be pretending. Horses for courses, eh :)


FUCK DIS STOOPID BITCH!!!!!1!!









































Just kidding. There's a lot of stuff I'm not into that I can still see merit in, but She really gets up my nose...
 

turtles

in the sea
Heh, depends on the scene doesn't it? And those Pitchfork indie-head types should be the first against the wall.
Yeah, it's killing me inside knowing this is huge in indie-dom ;) , and some of what's been written about it is pretty terrible (the pfork interview with her goes on about how she "really does mean it"...blech!). But, reasons why this is better than 99% of current indie rock:

- it's ambitious (and ambitious from a female "auteur" type no less)
- it is almost completely free of irony
- it's references points (and i agree with blunt here) are diverse (prog, folk, whatever pop-symphonic world van dyke parks comes from) and considerably different from standard indie (other freak-fold excepted)
- it's not an easy, warm-blanket kind of listen (she keeps pulling the damn blanket off...)
- and plus (and I know you'll appreciate this one, swears) ther are no guitars!

There are plenty of other reasons too, but I can't spend ALL day posting on message boards :D
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
I feel "stupid" when listening to Ys ..

Going by the recent interviews I've read, there's no way you could be stupider than Ms. Newsom herself.

Those photos of her in Wire were some of the tackiest, most contrived things I've ever seen. Standing around in art galleries with musty old books in frilly folky frocks, staring into the middle distance... please. Just reading that article made me want to hate her album.
 
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Chris

fractured oscillations
Give me a break, writing her off as a Pitchfork artist? I could understand her voice or quirkiness putting off a lot of people, but she shouldn't just be labeled another generic indie act. In a lot of ways, Joanna Newsom couldn't be further from what typical indie music has been for the last 20 or so years. Lumping her in with shit like say, Frans Ferdinand is like saying all electronic music is the same. There is absolutely no relation other than the Pitchfork connection, but contrary to how some make it seem, "Pitchfork" is not a genre.

Not all supposed 'indie" artists sound alike, any more than all electronic music does. But come on, I shouldn't even have to make such an obvious statement.

I'm starting to notice a kind of electronic, reverse form of rockism in some people. "If it's not futuristic, and a COMPLETE and radical departure from all music that's come before, then it has absolutely no relevence..." Sheesh, if you hold so strongly to such biased (and IMO off point) rules on how important and new music is supposed to sound, then you might miss out on some of the truly vital and important music that's actually happening right now. Besides, the irony in such a stance is that techno and electronic music is nothing new either. Personally, I too would love to see music make another radical leap like it did with hip hop or jungle, but sometimes the progression isn't always in the warped, futuristic way that techno, hardcore, and jungle accustomed us to expect it to happen.

Of course it's all opinion and I respect everyone for having their own, I certainly have mine.

Swears, I respect your modernist idealism in a way, but if ALL music just went completely synthetic, cyber, and futurist, things would get really fucking boring and stale, just like it would be unpleasant if the whole world got paved over. We still need some trees here and there to balance it out IMO.
 
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SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
A lot of passion aroused by this one. To anyone responding to swears: try drawing up a list of his recent posts, you'll see he fires off these kind of hateristic rants pretty often.

I haven't heard it, only heard the Clouds remix which is absolutely sick. I agree that the wobble bass is unnecessary but the drop with the vocal is absolutely shocking in the best possible way, reload city. I like her singing too, at least as far as I can tell it's her own, unlike so many of the current sound alikes in so many genres.
 

turtles

in the sea
Ambitious from a "female," eh? Nice one, caveman.
blast, did not mean for that to be misinterpreted in such a way. I was thinking more along the lines of <a href="http://tiny.abstractdynamics.org/archives/008662.html">this post</a>, that too often in rock women aren't allowed to show skill, show off, show ambition (these are typicall "male" rock traits), instead they're supposed to look pretty and sound pretty, be emotional. I'm generalizing here, but the fact that she's a strong women, pushing boundaries, being unabashedly smart and intellectual is without a doubt a really good thing, and i hope she's the beginning of a trend, because let's face it, damn near all the music we listen to (or at least that gets discussed on dissensus) has a serious lack of female artists. I hope I've made myself clear! :)
 

swears

preppy-kei
A lot of passion aroused by this one. To anyone responding to swears: try drawing up a list of his recent posts, you'll see he fires off these kind of hateristic rants pretty often.

It's just how I feel. I'm not trolling, nobody should take it as a slight on their person if I disagree with thier musical taste. One of my best mates is a big U2 fan!
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
Swears never picks personal fights with people, unlike some past notables on here (who may be back...?). If he lays into genres and artists with a bit of a bull head sometimes, at least it gets a debate going. This thread was starting to curdle in it's own praise a ittle before he intervened.

He might make sweeping statements, but he's usually prepared to qualify and/or justify them if challenged - whereas the true mark of a troll is that they never budge on inch from thier starting position, unless it's to become even more extreme and ridiculous.

I just ordered Ys from Amazon, I'll reserve judgement til it arrives. But I think saying that this is a 'hot' indie/pitchfork album is fair comment, given the reception it's recieved.

Swears, I've got no time for the cookie cutter indie you rail against, but I like a lot of folk stuff and I feel it's contemporary resonance. There's something about the intimacy of it, and it's mode of communication, that feels right for a culture moving away from a mass-audience model towards smaller groups where the boundary between artists and audiences is collapsing - and that's happening faster in dance/electronica than in any other style. There's musical similarities too, with a lot of folk using wierd modal scales and dissonant sounds.

I'd love to see wierd folk fusing with electronica, unfortunately it's not going to happen in the states with people like Steve 'dancing is like sucking dick' Albini around. The UK seems like much more fertile ground, with the likes of BoC living on a commune and raves historic links to crusty/traveller culture, but aside from Ultramarine it hasn't happened. Folk isn't really a part of the UK underground's lingua franca in the same way as it is in the US, which is a shame because our folk heritage is as rich as thiers, maybe even richer.
 

Chris

fractured oscillations
No offence taken at all, Swears. I don't see your posts as trolling, obviously you have your own vision and opinions like everyone on here and you aren't afraid to express them. I have nothing but respect for that, and on most issues, find myself agreeing with you, just not on the whole all indie is pure shit thing... ;)

Didn't mean to come across the wrong way in the earlier post myself...

Nothing wrong with disagreeing sometimes anyway, I enjoy a good, constructive debate. And hell, this board is called Dissensus, not Consensus.
 

michael

Bring out the vacuum
I'd love to see wierd folk fusing with electronica, unfortunately it's not going to happen in the states with people like Steve 'dancing is like sucking dick' Albini around. The UK seems like much more fertile ground, with the likes of BoC living on a commune and raves historic links to crusty/traveller culture, but aside from Ultramarine it hasn't happened. Folk isn't really a part of the UK underground's lingua franca in the same way as it is in the US, which is a shame because our folk heritage is as rich as thiers, maybe even richer.
Only notable example I can think of are Tunng. I don't particularly like them, but they're definitely bringing in the British folk influences loud and clear and using a lot of electronics with some at least vaguely surprising samples, e.g. deliberately crackly old records, bursts of completely unprocessed found sounds, etc. There're some MP3s on their site if you're interested. I'd recommend Tale From Black.
 

tate

Brown Sugar
I'd love to see wierd folk fusing with electronica, unfortunately it's not going to happen in the states with people like Steve 'dancing is like sucking dick' Albini around.
Not really sure what you mean, there are loads and loads of 'weird folk' people into electronics, animal collective and that bunch, jackie o motherfucker, and on and on. I saw jackie o' last spring and they were full into fusing electronics, folk, 'gospel,' noise, etc. There's tons about and I assume that there will only be more and more. As for Albini's influence, yes he's an ignoramus about dance music and hip-hop as well, but don't think for a second that people who run in his circle don't love beats and electronics and feel perfectly able to go in that direction. Anyway, the whole 'Albini is against dancing' thing is probably overstated anyway -- did you ever hear or see Space Streakings, the Japanese Industrial freakout noise group who played metal-meets-jesus-lizard guitar *live* along with beats pre-made and played on vinyl on turntables, by their DJ? One of the most absolutely insane live shows I've ever seen . . . anyway, Albini recorded them, over a decade ago.
 

Gabba Flamenco Crossover

High Sierra Skullfuck
Not really sure what you mean, there are loads and loads of 'weird folk' people into electronics, animal collective and that bunch, jackie o motherfucker, and on and on. I saw jackie o' last spring and they were full into fusing electronics, folk, 'gospel,' noise, etc. There's tons about and I assume that there will only be more and more. As for Albini's influence, yes he's an ignoramus about dance music and hip-hop as well, but don't think for a second that people who run in his circle don't love beats and electronics and feel perfectly able to go in that direction. Anyway, the whole 'Albini is against dancing' thing is probably overstated anyway -- did you ever hear or see Space Streakings, the Japanese Industrial freakout noise group who played metal-meets-jesus-lizard guitar *live* along with beats pre-made and played on vinyl on turntables, by their DJ? One of the most absolutely insane live shows I've ever seen . . . anyway, Albini recorded them, over a decade ago.

Thanks for the recs Tate, I'm not as up on this stuff as you so I'll check some of those guys out. There's a difference between electronics and dance though, and I think it's fair to say that american indie/underground has never really got dance culture.

The Space Streakings sound nuts. '50 insane japanese acts to check out before you die' woudl be great dissensus thread.
 
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