Mel Gibson - APOCALYPTO

man you're a strange cunt HMLT... :)

...you make it sound like family values is a bad thing and think this film should be funny when it's serious but borat should be serious when it's funny

funiest 'theory' I heard about mesoamreican sacrifices on the temple tops was that they were performing open heart surgery in the cleanest environment above the crowds and jungle using surgical steel knives... :rolleyes:
 
man you're a strange cunt HMLT... :)

...you make it sound like family values is a bad thing and think this film should be funny when it's serious but borat should be serious when it's funny

Would you mind awfully if I print out this post, have it framed, and then immediately despatched for exhibition at my local art gallery? Sure to be a hit amongst the Gibson memorabilia ...

[Borat ... isn't he a delegate at the Iranian Holocaust conference, where he's performing his current hit single, something catchy about throwing people down a well?]
 

elgato

I just dont know
This may sound like a weird question, but in the name of all infidels I wonder: Do you have to study the relevant Bible parts before seeing "The Passion of the Christ" in order for it to be worthwile, or is it pedagogical enough in its own right?

is my understanding much mistaken in thinking that The Passion was based on a middle-ages play interpreting the biblical events, written in order to motivate English soldiers moving off to The Crusades?

anyways, i know that i fucking hate mel gibson, he is an idiot, a bigot, and represents most that is bad with modern American Christianity. 'family values' are not necessarily a bad thing, but if theyre unquestioned and imposed im not so sure

this film looks interesting, but i immediately go on the back foot seeing the name i so despise sitting atop its title
 

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
Well I enjoyed the shit out of it... good hero story (crosses valley of death, makes leap of faith etc), great costume etc. Quite a trip being wrenched from the jungle into the city. The grainy desaturated look of the jungle (digital cams?) made me think of a less aestheticized or budget video version of The New World.

In the relatively stable West which has not experienced war for over fifty years, the abduction phenomenon may express deep fears of the forcible appropriation of the tribal gene pool by an aggressive other produced through millennia of tribal and personal competition for women.
http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/vice01.htm
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
For his story, Gibson may have chosen the most obscure and fascinating topic yet. The once great Mayan civilization, which thrived in Central America for over 2000 years, is seldom talked about in mainstream culture. The ancient society was quite advanced in their political structures, had thoroughly developed agricultural and mathematical systems, and possessed unsurpassed astronomical knowledge (some of which is still being studied today), which helped them observe and outline an astoundingly accurate 365-day calendar. They were deeply devoted to their belief system, a lot of which ties into modern religion, and were highly prone to making human sacrifices. In all likelihood, they may be best known for their extraordinary architecture, most of which has practically been swallowed by the Mexican jungle after abandonment. Even more intriguing is their relatively sudden and rapid collapse in the early 1400s following many years of tremendous prosperity and dominance. The downfall of this great civilization has been studied for years and has been attributed to such factors as constant warfare, depletion of croplands, and unexpected droughts, but the exact reasons are still being deliberated.

Hmm. Well, the real collapse happened in the 8th/9th century, the civilisation after that was very much a shadow of its former self.

What's all this bollocks about 2012, by the way?

Edit: oh yeah, one other thing...perhaps the Maya got wiped out by eeeeevil British soldiers? British Jewish soldiers at that? :)

/hates Gibson and all his devillish works
 
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Dial

Well-known member
Dissappointing dumbness:

Happy social groupings burst asunder by the minions of corrupt pagan heathens soaked in the very worst of over-refinement and superstitious blood and death lust. Our hero cannot be taken down by these ultimately lesser forces and makes his way back to the mothers of wife and jungle. And he nails that return to deep roots and sense at the movie's very end by turning away from the shock troops of modernity to head deeper into the forest. A middle way, perhaps, between mystic blood lusts and 'progress', to reference another tradition gaining ground in the 21st century.

I guess my difficulty was the lack of complexity any which way you looked. Horribly, powerfully, simplistic. True, power was gained from the shock value of the 'primitivism' depicted. And Gibson's willingness to depict this with such graphic frankness, as well as great narrative speed and economy, were all of a piece. The movie was brutal and smelt of blood at its best. Peter Bradshaw writing in the Guardian on Jan 5 is right. Gibson's magi in this was none other than Leni Riefenstahl and her chthonic blood dramas: Nuremburg and Sundanese tribesman.

But, it don't take much to see where this undoes itself. I'd like to say it really was an awful beast of a movie, but dumbness no matter how swift and blunt in its execution remains mere dumbness. The movie was fucking dumb, not only its overall arc of sense, which I'll get to in a moment, but also the action on screen. The long chase through the jungle which seemed to contract that great plane of immanence into a single arrowed path, along which all could trot in single file like raging eagle scouts. And jaguar, the big cat, that, Jaguar Paw, the badly wounded man, could escape from, and then spend the next 5 minutes outrunning. Oh ya, you just got to get a good wind behind you and do bit of weaving.

One might argue that Aristotelian verisimilitude is besides the point in what was/is largely a pre-rational appeal to pre-rational verities. And if that's your view then maybe you'll find its blunt simplicity seductive. My own rather hackneyed roll call for seduction asks for greater complexity, richness, and indeterminacy. And then finding a place within these while aiming to improve matters: down with the crap and beauty of where you're at while aiming for somewhere better. This is the nature and texture of 'reality', or at least, thats how I'd roll my moralizing.

Easy to critique, I know, but a really really good movie might have folded blood lust, arcadia, and modernity, one into t'other, into t'other. As indeed they are out in the world we inhabit. And in so doing confront us with the need to embrace and go beyond as a way forward, rather than simply turn our back. When was the last time that worked as a real answer?

Mel Gibson believes in easy answers, tho, and the world view that believes it is possible to turn one's back on the world and 'return to the jungle' is the same one that would have it that, 'all the wars in the world are caused by Jews'. Dumbness. And the movie that came out of that? Just as dumbass. Ayah.

Actually, it's not really bad, if you only expect a sort of typical Mel Gibson adventure type deal. With a bit of exotic travel in time and space thrown in to spice matters up. The faces of the actors were great, and that return to the jungle could also be seen more generously than I have. The lack of any decent story beyond a portentous fable, remains, nonetheless. Bad guys, a tough, good, sensitive guy, and chicks with a Gibson catholic mummy twist.

At least it wasn't Jude Law and Jack Black being loathsomely winsome. Gibson's intense and slightly crazed and you gotta admire that. Well I do at any rate.

And to think that day we set out with our hearts set on the viewing pleasures of Jackass. Ha. Perhaps I'm just soured by dissapointment of a different sort.
 

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
Bless his cotton socks...

Mel Gibson apparently went crazy again last night at Cal State Northridge when a Mayan culture expert accused him of racially stereotyping the Mayans in his movie Apocalypto. He was giving a presentation and afterwards the crowd was allowed to ask questions. An Assistant Professor of Central American Studies asked if Mel had read about Mayan culture before shooting the film and Gibson said he had. Then she pushed even further, saying his representations of Mayan sacrificial ceremonies and bloodlst were racist. Mel responded, "Lady, Fuck off." Then members of the Mayan community protested on how they were portrayed in the film and as they escorted from the room by event organizers Mel screamed at them "Make your own movie!"
 
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