"Cocaine Rap" Sasha Frere-Jones hilarious delusion

[nomadologist]

what are you talking about coke fiend professor (??) panties wet? i didn't say you had to hear it in any context. i said i liked it for reasons relating to its curious production values.

subversive??? who said anything about subversive?

 

[the undisputed truth]

oops my bad...

...got BDDC confused with that throbbing gristle shit someone else was raving about or was that you too ???

do you ever listen to music when trashed and think 'OMG THIS SHIT IS PHAT' then the buzz wears of and you hear it for what it is ???

...mostly fluff

could Clipse be like that. All flash in the pan with no real flava ???

I'm not sold eh...

 

[nomadologist]

what are you talking about? if you want to talk about not liking BDDC, do it in that thread. otherwise, you have no idea what you're talking about.

the professors i was talking about are not female, nor are they "cokefiends", they're professional producers and sound engineers. a composition may be regarded as a "shit tune" by certain individuals, but if it is significant in its context or within a genre for reasons pertaining to its formal or technical content, people who produce, write, or perform music will certainly appreciate it.

see, some people have ears sophisticated enough that they can appreciate things they don't necessarily like sonically. some people are intelligent enough that they can enjoy hearing and discussing things for theoretical, cultural, or other intellectual reasons. you're clearly and avowedly not one of those people, so i'm not interested in your opinion on the clipse.

 

[the undisputed truth]

and some people can't tell their arse from their face form looking in a mirror...

...maybe those professors, producers and engineers are just straight up bullshitting and brainwashing based on their failed attempts to make it in the real world

i can go to an art museum and have some art history major give me a hundred reasons why i should love a painting but if it looks like shit then...

...and oh yeah I make a few beats, produced/engineered a bit of stuff and have worked more gigs than i care to count so what do i know eh ???

so you can jam your contextual genre defying formal and technical content up your tightly sophisticated white hipster ass...

 

[nomadologist]

mostly fluff what? no, i listened to BDDC while i was tripping, which can add to or take away from my experience of music (usually adds a lot), but rarely changes my opinion completely. i have strong and fussy aesthetic preferences that bend and stretch in quite a few directions to incorporate related material and anything that seems intense or complex enough. not a big fan of folksy or MOR stuff. don't know what any of this has to do with clipse, or why you are trying to be provocative in this thread instead of whichever other thread you're talking about...

i like throbbing gristle. i never said they were subversive. in fact, i said they weren't subversive or shocking, but fit very well within a longstanding literary and artistic tradition, and find them sonically very interesting in terms of methodology and production values, and that, thematically, they went pretty heavy into the dark side of the 20th century. they were all about sadism and evil and the collective Id in the industrial and post-industrial era--the one that made things like the holocaust and Stalinism possible.

 

[nomadologist]

make it in the real world?? what are you talking about? come back to me when you're a senior engineer at sony or have produced dozens of albums for the hit factory.

you don't know anything about my life, undisputed, very clearly. why are you trying to talk about it? what does it have to do with the clipse? please take this elsewhere because i am enjoying speaking with tht. if you want to, you can private message some "insults" to me about my taste. i assure you i don't mind and it will leave this thread open to people who want to discuss clipse.

 

[nomadologist]

you realize that there's a difference between liking music and appreciating its significance formally or culturally, of course? otherwise you're really lost here.

 

[the undisputed truth]

fuck sony, fuck the hit factory, fuck rapping for the pop charts and i couldn't give 2 shits about your life or about...

appreciating its significance formally or culturally, of course

...do you think the clipse give 2 shits about that either ???

 

[nomadologist]

I am 100% sure they care about being good lyricists and performers. The Neptunes care about the cultural relevance of the album, not to mention its sonic freshness and signficance within hip-hop and even more broadly pop--that is their thing. Contriving great pop events, and songcraft in general. i wouldn't be surprised if clipse were on that tip, too, having worked with the Neptunes, who live and breathe this stuff, for so long...

do you think the clipse are completely ignorant of these sorts of issues? that's a ridiculous idea.

 

[nomadologist]

if you couldn't "give 2 shits" about my life or any of these things why are you bothering to type these posts?

 

[the undisputed truth]

do you think the clipse are completely ignorant of these sorts of issues?

yeah i do actually...

...you got anything in print or otherwise to substantiate your ascribed views of pharrell and the clipse ???

mainstream hiphop is all about getting paid by any means neccessary and to hell with cultural relevence...

...if they gave so much of a shit about their culture they wouldn't sell coke or make shit tunes and vids about it. Then again maybe it aint pitched to the homies living that culture

Sonic freshness from pharell ???

get the fuck outta here, recycled riffs from the 80's pitched to middle class hipsters looking to be all ghetto fabulous...don't make me laugh

and nah there seems like too many elitist fuckwits, crackaasscrackas, twisted wiggas and dumass niggas for me to ever bother visiting the states...

...though i could see myself smoking the peace pipe with some natives

and i thought we're talking music not your life...

 

[nomadologist]

the beats on this album alone are amazing, especially the polyrhymic ones on "keys open doors" and "trill" and "ain't cha". i'll put songs up now for anyone else who might want them.

the opener We Got it For Cheap is still one of my favorites--anyone from brooklyn/bronx/queens knows how hilarious the dominican on here is

Keys Open Doors the bomb, maybe the best one

Ride Around Shinin

Wamp Wamp (lead single)

 

[nomadologist]

Undisputed, you have never been to the US, have you? If you have been, you did not pick up much about our culture. Hip-hop is about getting paid, but other music isn't? Are you on crack?

Seems almost racist to me, the idea that hip hop artists don't care about music or "culture" because they grew up in a terrible poverty-striken situation where dealing drugs is common and basically a necessity as early as high school, where gang activity and crime are a fact of daily life and there are no government-funded or culturally endorsed paths out of the ghetto and a continued life of poverty for innercity and minority youths.

What are you on about? Recycled from the 80s? Some of The Neptunes is 80s inspired, but so what? A lot of Miles Davis is formally inspired by jazz and other musicians from 30 years (and more) before his career began. Satie was influenced by Debussy. What's wrong with taking inspiration from prior generations or musicians? All music does it, its how music works formally. The idea that The Neptunes aren't extremely educated in popular music and immersed in it and don't truly love it is just ridiculous. I have nothing more to say to you.

Question about message boards. Is there a way to block people?

 

[nomadologist]

By the way, I didn't "ascribe" any "views" to the Clipse or Pharrell, I mentioned their obvious engagement in pop music and dedication to their vision of what great pop is. No one asked you to like it, Undisputed. This thread is about how all hip-hop is commercial to varying degrees and cocaine and drug dealing has always figured heavily in the lyrical content of rap, from day one. What you are saying about the Neptunes is a pretty standard complaint, usually made by rock fans or indie fans or anyone who doesn't care for pop. I get that you don't care for pop or hip-hop that is pop-inflected. And that you don't like Throbbing Gristle. Want to get any of your other objections out of the way?

Hopefully by tomorrow tht will have added something productive to the thread, so I will have a reason to continue reading it...

 

[the undisputed truth]

ok listened to them and all i gotta say is...

...thank fuck for lil jon and the ying yang twins

I'm sure some hiphop artists do care about the 'cultural' relevence of their music as it relates to the ghetto but wheres your proof to say clipse and pharrell do...

...their shit doesn't exactly uplift me or make me want to rush out and buy it or try/sell coke

no ones saying the neptunes aren't musically well versed. I'm just saying pharrell aint even half that neither is the clipse and if anything it shows what a crap year for hiphop 06 was...

...I reckon theres prolly an 80's riff hiding in every pharell tune ever and it's that associative familiarity people resonate with

if nas says hiphop is dead, his album sux arse to prove it and so does pharells, while lupe fiasco and clipse are lauded as the best things this year while jigga has to resort to beef and rehashing then...

...long live hiphop it was great while it lasted

RIP

...my last objection is to your elitist superior than thou attitude to music. Like if i don't like it its because i don't understand it or haven't been taught how to like it by some frustrated academic

you ever heard the saying those that do, do and those that can't teach or how about those that say don't know and those that know don't say...nahm sayin ???

The Neptunes care about the cultural relevance of the album, not to mention its sonic freshness and signficance within hip-hop and even more broadly pop--that is their thing. Contriving great pop events, and songcraft in general.

^^^ their views or yours ???

Why not take SFJ's article to the hood and get all up in some coke dealers grille for some real down home slice of the pie feedback and see where that'll get ya ???

you think they give a shit either ???

 

[nomadologist]

are you kidding? you don't have to like the album, undisputed. by all means, hate it. i like it because i like the beats and the production. nothing elitist there. i started this thread to discuss what i thought was sasha frere-jones elitist sort of reading, where he failed to fully account for the fact that lots of hip-hop focuses on drug dealing and use.

when i said the thing about professors, it was a theoretical thing. i've never talked to any professors about Black Devil Disco Club. i was just saying it was a really interesting release for a lot of historical reasons, especially for anyone who likes Italo disco. there's a ton to discuss about it from so many angles, if you like doing that. I never said you should want to do that, and I never said I even wanted to do that. I was just making a case for why I thought it was a worth sharing on a message board. It's not even the best sounding thing sonically I've ever heard. Just an interesting release. Some other people here were interested in hearing it, so all was not lost in posting about it.

When I do learn about audio production, I learn with working professionals, though. No "can't dos". I don't take "music appreciation" courses with academics, I take audio production the technical applied skill.

Lots of people in the hood and around my neighborhood bump Wamp Wamp from their cars. There's no need to get academic about the Clipse album to like it. I definitely have tons more experience with American coke dealers than you do, Undisputed. Don't really think Sasha Frere-Jones articles would jibe with them--in fact, one of my Jamaican friends laughed really hard when I told him about how people were calling some new hip-hop "coke rap."

Don't understand your hostility here, this was really a thread about how silly the indiepress' elitism about music is, not about hip hop being alive or dead in 06. I don't even deign to get into that ridiculous and shrill argument. If hip-hop is dead how much deader is rock? Please. There is music I like, and there is music I don't like.

 

[the undisputed truth]

BTW yes there is away to block people and I'm on parole so i hope i haven't fucked that up as well...

...although it's like you can give it but can't take it and if all else fails go running to the teacher

...lastly you really should checkout our beats in my sig I'd love some educated feedback by a trained sophisticate hipster

pffffft...NEXT

 

[nomadologist]

I can give what? I don't care if you disagree with me, but I really didn't like your comment about "dumass niggas." I would rather that not come up on my screen at work. Otherwise I would gladly just ignore your posts without blocking you.

If I come off as elitist, it may be because I have perfect pitch and spent a lot of years playing piano and teaching violin lessons, so I do think about some things from a technical perspective. I am by no means any production expert, but I'd love to be and I spend all day everyday thinking about things like Clipse albums and Neptunes production because I do care about those things and they fascinate me.

You could go into the ghetto or roll up to some heads in my hood and ask them if they thought hip hop was dead and they'd fucking laugh in your face, too, Undisputed. They'd say the only people who think hip-hop is dead are the ones who can't make a living doing it anymore.

 

[the undisputed truth]

well then I'd love to hear some of your productions then given all that......you got myspace ???

for the record my partner and I don't even know what to do with a pentatonic scale unless you could weigh some weed on it and wouldn't know c minor from ursa major

but did you listen to our shit ???...so what exactly is a production expert ???

you're right though hiphop aint dead maybe the drugs have just made people dead to it like zombies on autopilot looking for the next fix...

...and please let's not give insults like twat and douchebag cos i give back and it's gotten me in a lot of trouble in a lot of places

i'm sorry if dumass nigga offends you but it's funny that would offend you more than cracka asscracka or twisted wigga...

...fuck that PC at work shizz

 

[nomadologist]

nope, no music on myspace. i guess i'll put some up eventually if the other people i wrok with are ok with that.
will look at your myspace later.

there's always some year all music journalists are saying wasn't very good, and that's because the year before that journalist or those journalists liked a lot of things. here's what they don't realize, though--music is released cyclically, and not by the calendar year. if you liked a ton of albums one year ago or two years ago, chances are it's going to be a couple years before those labels or artists cough up anything else that's as good. labels and artists have to recover, recharge, make sure they make money touring, etc etc. takes a while. especially with indie label stuff. those places can't afford to put out a junio boys album every 18 months.

i think 1999 was one of those years, "music is dead", then the next year tons of good shit came out all at once.