"human nature"

zhao

there are no accidents
The only "barbarism" I see is testosterone driven beer drinkers locking horns on Friday night and resentful hooded teenagers asking for cigarettes or whatever when I'm out shopping in town. It's annoying but still, its got to be better than putting people in the stocks and public executions of criminals and the like. And it certainly doesn't seem to be regarded as civilised by most poeple I talk to. I mean, where do you live mate?

where you live is the key here obviously.

only people who think modern times are not barbaric are those who live in places which export their barbarism to other places.

only people who think capitalism works great are the ones whose people are not systematically enslaved or victimized by it on a mass scale, over prolonged periods of time.

OBVIOUSLY.
 

vimothy

yurp
only people who think modern times are not barbaric are those who live in places which export their barbarism to other places.

only people who think capitalism works great are the ones whose people are not systematically enslaved or victimized by it on a mass scale, over prolonged periods of time.

OBVIOUSLY.

I think I've come round to the idea that there is still plenty of barbarism in the world. I'm not sure how much of it I would put down to capitalism, though.

Could you say more about the process whereby civilized countries export their barbarism to other places? When Germany exports barbarism, where does it go? What is the transmission mechanism?

The intellectual geneolgy of anti-capitalist ideas are quite interesting. I imagine that if you take postcolonial studies at Harvard or Yale, you learn all about the exploitative nature of capitalism. All ideas have to come from somewhere, of course. But it does show that not all the people who live in places that export their barbarism elsewhere think that capitalism works great. In fact, it mostly seems like the people with the critique of capitalism are all members of this set--often quite privileged members.
 

suspended

Well-known member
I'd have to disagree with that almost entirely. Look at human cultures all around the world - yes, there are huge differences, obviously - but there are also constants, 'memes' if you will that have appeared spontaneously and independently. People are both competitive and cooperative to some degree; they tend to live (at least some of the time) in small communities based on blood relation (anything from the nuclear family to larger tribal units), they display friendliness towards people they know and hostility and politeness, in some ratio or other, to those they don't; concepts like marriage, religion, authority and some idea of law and punishment seem to be universal.

The idea that human beings are somehow blank slates onto which cultural values and norms are passively inscribed is ludicrous. After all, if that were the case, how would those cultures have arisen in the first place? They're all, to some degree or another, codifications or elaborations of instinctual behaviour: militaristic nationalism or the patriotism of football fans at an internation match have evolved or mutated from notions of tribal loyalty; the justice and prison systems stem largely from the desire to see retribution exacted on wrong-doers; churches and temples are the institutionalised custodians of the awe primitive man saw in the stars and oceans which gradually crystallised into organised religion. Bear in mind we were wandering around butt naked hunting animals with stone tools a blink-of-an-eye ago, in evolutionary terms - and that in the parts of the world where people still live like that, they nonetheless mourn their dead, tell stories and laugh at jokes just like we do.

No-one would deny that there's something inherently 'doggy' about a dog's behaviour, regardless of its breed and individual history: why should humans be any different?
Since when is Tea this articulate?
 

suspended

Well-known member
Edit: and what's wrong with memes? I think it's a fascinating and useful idea. Could it have something to do with the fact they were postulated by Dawkins, prime anathema to the lovers of Baudrillard et al?
Holy shit!! Tea!!!
 
gek-Opel was one of my favourite dissensus posters. a good one to hoke through. also had one of the weirdest avis, pale man in make up and a big pink headress with fleshy squid like tentacles drooping from his mouth... I can’t remember what film it’s from
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
gek-Opel was one of my favourite dissensus posters. a good one to hoke through. also had one of the weirdest avis, pale man in make up and a big pink headress with fleshy squid like tentacles drooping from his mouth... I can’t remember what film it’s from
A series of conceptual films called the Cremaster Cycle, I think.

The cremaster is the muscle that makes your balls retract into your body when it's cold, I believe.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
"Reaction to the cycle is sharply divided – some consider it a major work of art, on a par with Un Chien Andalou and The Waste Land, while others dismiss it as vapid, self-indulgent tedium."
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
gekopal i was slagging off not Barney. ive never seen any cremasters. i think Barney is cancelled though. i think it was a me-too operation.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I thought for a moment that "Barney" was some old-time Dissensus guy who couldn't keep his hands to himself around da laydees.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
OK, "debate club" sounds horribly high-school, and at some level I probably wrote that to make luka squirm because I know he hates the idea. But there tended to be more in-depth discussions that went on for tens of pages with several people writing posts of a few hundred words at a time.
 
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