global financial crash yay!

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Well, Britain would have been OK in the euro as one of the senior partners. I'm pretty agnostic about the whole thing, but I wouldnt' have been had I been Greek/Portuguese/Italian/Spanish. Disaster waiting to happen for those countries.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Strikes me that a lot of people on the left adopt a pro-Euro stance by default just because most conservatives (not just the actual Tory party but the Tory press and most of the small-c conservative public) have always been dead against it. Whereas it's not, when you get down to it, a particularly socialistic project.
 

luka

Well-known member
i was struck by this passage
'Primarily, the aim is to transform Greece into a laboratory of social transformation that will be generalized later across Europe. The model tested over the Greeks is a model of a society without public services, in which schools, hospitals and medical centers are demolished, health becomes a privilege of the rich, vulnerable populations are destined for a planned extermination, while those who still have a job will be working under extreme insecurity and economic misery.'
in an article babbooon posted on his facebook.
http://www.europeagainstausterity.org/?p=650

what kind of project do you, tea and anyone reading, think it is?
 

luka

Well-known member
i dont think its possible to be hyperbolic about what has happened to greece although the only novel thing about it is that its happeneing to a (moderately) developed country of white people and a member of the eu to boot.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well yeah, when I said "not particularly socialistic" I was going for understatement...

That said I dunno if the EU/Euro was set up all those years ago with the express intention of demolishing Greece's social infrastructure and enslaving its people.
 

luka

Well-known member
no nor do i but movements can be hijacked. i think its an extreme point of view but not one i would dismiss out of hand necesarily.
 

Sectionfive

bandwagon house
Strikes me that a lot of people on the left adopt a pro-Euro stance by default just because most conservatives (not just the actual Tory party but the Tory press and most of the small-c conservative public) have always been dead against it. Whereas it's not, when you get down to it, a particularly socialistic project.

yeah it's almost entirely a neoliberal beast for the most part though not in some key aspects but Farage and co's objections and the reasons it's turning to shit don't really have much of an overlap imo. The Greek situation is sick. It's terrifying how the whole country has been vilified with the same lines repeated over and over in the press until they stick. We now have to cut loose the out of control Greeks while the European banking system sails on and everyone talks about the importance of firewalls with no mention of what happens the people they build one around. Charities in Athens, previously engaged in dealing with alcoholism, drug abuse, domestic violence etc, are now almost exclusively dealing with hunger.


Merkel and the CDU are higher then polls then any time since taking over the second term
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
i was struck by this passage
'Primarily, the aim is to transform Greece into a laboratory of social transformation that will be generalized later across Europe. The model tested over the Greeks is a model of a society without public services, in which schools, hospitals and medical centers are demolished, health becomes a privilege of the rich, vulnerable populations are destined for a planned extermination, while those who still have a job will be working under extreme insecurity and economic misery.'
in an article babbooon posted on his facebook.
http://www.europeagainstausterity.org/?p=650

what kind of project do you, tea and anyone reading, think it is?

Well, I guess the neoliberal project within Europe, as said - making it closer to America, washing away any vestige of safety net for the have-nots and creating vast swathes of near-destitute people.

In that article - the fact that 2005-9 Greece bought 51 combat fighters form France and the US, and these are yet to be included in the cuts...madness, pure madness.
 
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faustus

Well-known member
General Strike just been called here in Spain

1331296875728HUELGA-GENERAL-DETALLE-ANCHc4.jpg
 

Sectionfive

bandwagon house
Significantly, when the first bail-out package was being negotiated in 2010, Greece spent 7.1bn euros (£5.9bn) on its military, up from 6.24bn euros in 2007. A total of £1bn was spent on French and German weapons, plunging the country even further into debt in the same year that social spending was cut by 1.8bn euros. It has claimed by some that this was no coincidence, and that the EU bail-out was explicitly tied to burgeoning arms deals. In particular, there is alleged to have been concerted pressure from France to buy several stealth frigates. Meanwhile Germany sold 223 howitzers and completed a controversial deal on faulty submarines,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/21/greece-austerity-measures-military-spending

feckless Greeks
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
no, that can't be it, Greece is in trouble because of ordinary people's greed, everyone knows that... ;)

I'm still waiting for vimothy to explain, either in this thread or (bizarrely) the Dawkins one, why the Greek govt can't be held at least partly responsible for the mess the country's in despite its well documented fraud, massive military spending in the face of a collapsing economy, etc. etc.
 
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Sectionfive

bandwagon house
The IMF are currently doing their press briefing via phone after a journalist had the cheek to ask questions the last time they were here. Klaus Masuch (ECB) is no longer working on the Irish mission and asked for a transfer to Greece shortly after his last visit.

 
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