Milk

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Berlin isn't a world food capital in my experience!

German food's the wurst! :D

(Well, some of it's OK, but it's pretty meat-and-spuds oriented. That said, Berlin has a huge Turkish population, which is always good delicious (and affordable) nosh.)
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Berlin has a huge Turkish population, which is always good delicious (and affordable) nosh.)

tru dat, tru dat.

and the absolute WURST is the breakfast. bread, cheese, processed meat, and fruit. all served cold. what the fuck??? never thought i would miss hashbrowns and sunny-side-up this much.

and here's a bit copied from my bwoggie:

about this schnitzel business... people talk about it as the ultimate dish of Germanic cusine, so tasty as to inspire salivation at the mere mention. so we go to one of the best places in Vienna, where the waiter was 110 years old, with old Prussian Empire paintings on the walls... and it is indeed very good -- but COME THE FUCK ON YOU SIMPLE PALLETTED CAUCASOIDS -- it's not much more than country-fried-steak. more tender and better prepared, sure, but it is meat covered in bread crumbs and fried. are you kidding me? where i come from a dish worth getting excited about takes 3 days to prepare, 15 herbs that go into the marinate sauce alone, and a level of refinement compared to which this schnitzel thing is nothing more than crude. (of course i understand the virtues of simplicity. and sometimes the best thing is an uncomplicated thing. but still. in other parts of the world this would be served in cafeterias and wouldn't even make it onto the menu of a good restaurant.)

but to be fair the Bavarians do know a thing or 2 about beer... but (is that too many buts?), maybe it's because i haven't had enough kinds of german beers, my favorite is still Guiness.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Berlin isn't a world food capital in my experience!"
Maybe not a world food capital but I've always eaten very well there and pretty cheap too. I love the rich, hearty food that's standard there.... maybe that's why I'm putting on so much weight these days. (I like Hungarian and other central/eastern European food even better though, all those meaty soups with sour cream floating in it and onions and mushrooms and stuff - fuck yeah!).

"and the absolute WURST is the breakfast. bread, cheese, processed meat, and fruit. all served cold. what the fuck???"
What's wrong with that? I think that makes a great breakfast. I love cold meat and cheese, fucking great.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
Let's see what science says: This and this and and this and this.

That last article has the nice line: "Vegetarianism may be best seen as a method for complicating the normalization of eating rather than a simple risk factor for eating disorders."

none of those articles back up your reasoning and that quote is so vague as to be meaningless.

the most that can be stated is that individuals who have eating disorders may use vegetarianism (or a claim to be vegetarian) as cover for the disorder. vague correlation (looking at the studies, they're not generalisable anyway), doesn't mean causation.
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
none of those articles back up your reasoning and that quote is so vague as to be meaningless.

the most that can be stated is that individuals who have eating disorders may use vegetarianism (or a claim to be vegetarian) as cover for the disorder. vague correlation (looking at the studies, they're not generalisable anyway), doesn't mean causation.

That's true, but have you got better studies that prove the opposite point? Certainly all vegetarians i know personally strike me as having massive problems with food, and onset of vegetarianism coincided with onset of anorexia.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
That's true, but have you got better studies that prove the opposite point? Certainly all vegetarians i know personally strike me as having massive problems with food, and onset of vegetarianism coincided with onset of anorexia.

i didn't make the claim, you did- the onus is on you, friend :)

i've got 'fat' vegetarian friends, one of whom has recently started eating meat and lost 2 stone. therefore meat eating= crash weight loss????
 

borderpolice

Well-known member
i didn't make the claim, you did- the onus is on you, friend :)

No, I have done my bit, in providing scientific evidence that backs my claim. I see the problems with these studies, but they may be the best we can currently say on this matter. I change my mind if i see convincing studies that prove me wrong (In the same sense that i know at least one of Quantum Mechanics or General Relativity must be wrong, but i will give up on either only when something better comes along).

i've got 'fat' vegetarian friends, one of whom has recently started eating meat and lost 2 stone. therefore meat eating= crash weight loss????

That is true, but annorexia is very irrational. I now a very annorexic girl who NEVER eats as far as i can tell! and she's not exactly slim either! How does that work? She drinks a lot of beer! Annorexia does not mean eating little. it means having massive problems with all kind of eating and being very irrational about it. Starvation diet is just one possible symptom of this illness.
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
No, I have done my bit, in providing scientific evidence that backs my claim. I see the problems with these studies, but they may be the best we can currently say on this matter.

but they don't say anything, unlike the other theories you mentioned- they're essentially meaningless.



That is true, but annorexia is very irrational. I now a very annorexic girl who NEVER eats as far as i can tell! and she's not exactly slim either! How does that work? She drinks a lot of beer! Annorexia does not mean eating little. it means having massive problems with all kind of eating and being very irrational about it. Starvation diet is just one possible symptom of this illness.

but that has nothing to do with not eating meat, which is what you're claiming
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
in addition, i know a lot of vegetarians/ ex-vegetarians, none of whom have food issues, so anecdotal evidence= 1-1 draw.

i'm not going out of my way to disprove a conjecture
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
All this talk of veganism has reminded me of this guy I know/knew who was vegan, he's an inch or two taller than me and must be a stone lighter (for the record, I'm 6'1" and just over 11 stone!) and has a skin tone not too different from Michael Jackson. We were talking about nutrition once and he said "the Government reckons we should eat five portions of fruit and veg a day - I've had seven already, and it's only midday!" as if this fact, in isolation, automatically meant he was really healthy. Whereas in actual fact he looked as if a junkie in the advanced stages of AIDS could have beaten him up for his lunch money.

I don't think you absolutely have to eat meat to be healthy, but I think it helps, and I think outright veganism is a pretty bad idea as far as nutrition goes.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Whereas in actual fact he looked as if a junkie in the advanced stages of AIDS could have beaten him up for his lunch money.

and you think your one example is enough to prove that veganism is bad? there can be thousands of other reasons why your friend looked unhealthy.

i know someone in his 40s who became a strict vegan raw-foodist 7 years ago, and has about twice the energy of an 18 year old.

i know someone else with 1 kidney, who has some disease i forget the name of, who by all the laws of medical science should be bed ridden all but 1 hour each day, but is not only out and about but teaches kung-fu with a big smile always on his face -- because he switched to a mostly raw vegan diet and does massive amounts of herbal treatment. (no not that kind of herb)

before he stopped going all together, the hospital he was at had to put him in a private room and forbid him from speaking to the other patients with his condition (who were bed ridden) because they all wanted to know his secret and it was not good for him to tell them 1. stop taking the proper medications 2. switch to a raw vegan diet. and 3. get proper herbs. this actually makes sense because with natural healing you have to go all the way, and any half assed routine without conventional medicine would likely result in a worsening of the situation.

i myself clearly notice that i have more physical and mental energy when i don't eat meat.
 
Last edited:

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
No, I don't think one example proves anything, I was just amused by his statement about how much fruit and veg he eats.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
i didn't make the claim, you did- the onus is on you, friend :)

i've got 'fat' vegetarian friends, one of whom has recently started eating meat and lost 2 stone. therefore meat eating= crash weight loss????

YES. BECAUSE THE KREBS CYCLE RUNS ON ENERGY DERIVED FROM PROTEIN. Excessive carbohydrates (esp in the absence of protein) fucks with your insulin levels, raising blood sugar and starting a chain reaction of hyperglycemia to hypoglycemia that eventually leads to a literal state of sugar/carbohydrate addiction.

Another interesting fact: veganism counts, in and of itself, as an "eating disorder" according to the DSM IV, mostly because of the amount of time a person has to spend planning their meals as vegans, and how much of a person's day veganism consumes. It is considered a compulsive "spectrum" behavior, I think.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
and you think your one example is enough to prove that veganism is bad? there can be thousands of other reasons why your friend looked unhealthy.

i know someone in his 40s who became a strict vegan raw-foodist 7 years ago, and has about twice the energy of an 18 year old.

i know someone else with 1 kidney, who has some disease i forget the name of, who by all the laws of medical science should be bed ridden all but 1 hour each day, but is not only out and about but teaches kung-fu with a big smile always on his face -- because he switched to a mostly raw vegan diet and does massive amounts of herbal treatment. (no not that kind of herb)

before he stopped going all together, the hospital he was at had to put him in a private room and forbid him from speaking to the other patients with his condition (who were bed ridden) because they all wanted to know his secret and it was not good for him to tell them 1. stop taking the proper medications 2. switch to a raw vegan diet. and 3. get proper herbs. this actually makes sense because with natural healing you have to go all the way, and any half assed routine without conventional medicine would likely result in a worsening of the situation.

i myself clearly notice that i have more physical and mental energy when i don't eat meat.

The real problem with stories like this is not that I don't believe someone could make a huge lifestyle change, cut out toxic substances, and feel more energy, but because in the absence of clinical backing they don't prove anything.
 
YES. BECAUSE THE KREBS CYCLE RUNS ON ENERGY DERIVED FROM PROTEIN. Excessive carbohydrates (esp in the absence of protein) fucks with your insulin levels, raising blood sugar and starting a chain reaction of hyperglycemia to hypoglycemia that eventually leads to a literal state of sugar/carbohydrate addiction.

This 'krebs cycle' sounds intriguing, let's hear more; and I'm also wondering how someone who might be addicted to sugar/carbs who suddenly starts consuming meat loses weight (in the absense of energy-consuming electro-chemical nervousness resulting from carb withdrawal anxiety).

Another interesting fact: veganism counts, in and of itself, as an "eating disorder" according to the DSM IV, mostly because of the amount of time a person has to spend planning their meals as vegans, and how much of a person's day veganism consumes. It is considered a compulsive "spectrum" behavior, I think.

Well yes, having actively helped to stigmatise fairly ordinary and normal behaviours and habits (like questioning the food you eat or are served, without DSM-Psychiatric permission) as 'disorders,' the DSM techno-pharmo-bureaucrats can comfortably then further stigmatise rational reactions to such stigmatisation as evidence of yet totally new 'spectrum disorders,' creating a whole new market niche. We might then also term the amount of time a DSM pedant has to spend planning their DSM entries, and how much of a DSM's day DSM-mania consumes, as a "DSM Spectrum Disorder," with yet further psychopharmo target-marketing opportunities.

HumpTea-DumbTea said:
All this talk of veganism has reminded me of this guy I know/knew who was vegan, he's an inch or two taller than me and must be a stone lighter (for the record, I'm 6'1" and just over 11 stone!) and has a skin tone not too different from Michael Jackson. We were talking about nutrition once and he said "the Government reckons we should eat five portions of fruit and veg a day - I've had seven already, and it's only midday!" as if this fact, in isolation, automatically meant he was really healthy. Whereas in actual fact he looked as if a junkie in the advanced stages of AIDS could have beaten him up for his lunch money ... I don't think you absolutely have to eat meat to be healthy, but I think it helps, and I think outright veganism is a pretty bad idea as far as nutrition goes.

Ah yes, Mein Fuhrer! The Aryan suprematist speaks once again! Anyone with other than the correct height and the correct skin colour and the correct meat-eating adulation, is clearly inferior to "a junkie in the advanced stages of AIDS," irrespective of whatever their actual diet might be.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
36098_02.jpg

on several levels...
 

catalog

Well-known member
I sent my mate a text about this nice milk available in my village and esp how delicious it tastes in coffee and he sent back that milk spoils a good coffee.

And he used this incredible phrase

"milk generally makes me feel terrible so I have decoupled from the udders teats"
 
Top