Is this the end of the Reagan/Rove right?

crackerjack

Well-known member
:slanted:

Of course I want him to win, but regardless of whether he wins or not, the issue of electoral fraud is still crucial - something you seem happy to ignore whilst munching your popcorn.

(sigh) I'm not ignoring - on the contrary I've read enough warnings about it, and enough reports on the armies of lawyers despatched by the well-funded Obama campaign to believe the Dems have enough to offset the scariest of the scaremongering. But whaddda i know? I'm just one of the sheeple, right?
 
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droid

Guest
Why the constant stream of sardonic comments and petty jibes so?

You haven't said a word to challenge any of the 'scaremongering' and 'paranoia', you seem to essentially agree with the points Ive made in this thread and with the reports of fraud, yet you cant help taking the piss.

Doesn't make you a 'sheeple' - I can think of far better adjectives...
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Why the constant stream of sardonic comments and petty jibes so?

You haven't said a word to challenge any of the 'scaremongering' and 'paranoia', you seem to essentially agree with the points Ive made in this thread and with the reports of fraud, yet you cant help taking the piss.

Doesn't make you a 'sheeple' - I can think of far better adjectives...

What constant stream?

I think the scaremongering is overplayed, partly because of who's saying it, partly because of the paranoia instilled after one stolen election and one deeply dubious one.

There's a stream of far left thought thta would be more confortable with a GOP win because it confirms everything they think about Amerikkka and the dysfucntional nature of American democracy. If that doesn't include you, cool, but it's not evident from your posts n this thread.
 
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droid

Guest
I think the scaremongering is overplayed, partly because of who's saying it, partly because of the paranoia instilled after one stolen election and one deeply dubious one.

Are you talking about Palast - about whom you're only criticism is that he's a 'pilgerist', or some other unsupported nonsense?

If you disagree that there is a systematic process of electoral fraud in place here then please explain why.

There's a stream of far left thought thta would be more confortable with a GOP win because it confirms everything they think about Amerikkka and the dysfucntional nature of American democracy. If that doesn't include you, cool, but it's not evident from your posts n this thread.

Oh sorry - I didnt realise that I had to pass your sad little purity test.

My posts on this thread have primarily discussed what I believe is the biggest issue in this election, and the wider question of democracy in the US: The attempts to disenfranchise millions of black, latino and working class white Americans in the run up to an election where race is a major issue - something which, (whilst accepting the veracity of the evidence) you describe as 'paranoia' and 'scaremongering'.

I can see how you could draw the conclusion that someone posting about the threat to a fair election and Democrat victory actually wants the GOP to win... :slanted::slanted:
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Are you talking about Palast - about whom you're only criticism is that he's a 'pilgerist', or some other unsupported nonsense?

If you disagree that there is a systematic process of electoral fraud in place here then please explain why.

Electoral malpractice is a feature of every American election - it just stands out in the closer ones. If you want to call that systematic electoral fraud, I won't quibble.

But every single commentator (with the possible exceptions of Palast and Kennedy) is expecting a massive turnout, the highest for 50+ years. Registration is up, with new registrees (that right?) going to Obama by colossal margins.

Oh sorry - I didnt realise that I had to pass your sad little purity test.

Christ you're prickly. No purity test, just curious why every comment of yours I can remember reading on this thread has been prepping the ground for an Obama defeat.

Anyway, you're not alone - there are people out there sick wid it;)

Yet beneath the energy and party atmosphere – with a crowd of 60,000 it was the biggest political rally in the history of Columbus – and the heady excitement that after this marathon campaign they had at last reached the cusp of history, many of these Ohioans were suffering a new mental condition on the eve of Election Day. It could be called “Victory Will Still Be Snatched From Us Compulsive Disorder”.

“I am so afraid some ghastly trick will be played again and we’ll wake up on Wednesday morning and we’ll be where we were in the last two elections,” said Stephanie Harper, 32, as she walked towards the rally with thousands of others. “My doctor says she is treating lots of Democrats for anxiety and depression, because of their obsession with this election and their fears that Obama will lose.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5069003.ece

But here's Tomasky talking about why the worst-case scenario won't happen.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/nov/03/pennsylvania-obama-mccain

If you take the average of four PA polls today, Obama is up by 9.5.
 
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droid

Guest
Electoral malpractice is a feature of every American election - it just stands out in the closer ones. If you want to call that systematic electoral fraud, I won't quibble.

That really isn't the case. Sure there are discrepancies in every election, but in recent history, such large scale and organised fraud, prevention of registration by 'caging', denial of voters at the ballot box etc... all along racial and class lines, is an entirely new phenomenon.

If fraud of a similar scale was happening in say... Venezuela we'd never hear the end of it.

But every single commentator (with the possible exceptions of Palast and Kennedy) is expecting a massive turnout, the highest for 50+ years. Registration is up, with new registrees (that right?) going to Obama by colossal margins.

I have made this point repeatedly though - a record number of registrations have been denied based on legislation passed in 2006, so this may not have the impact everyone hopes it will.

Christ you're prickly. No purity test, just curious why every comment of yours I can remember reading on this thread has been prepping the ground for an Obama defeat.

Hope for the best - plan for the worst! Even if he wins, this still remains a crucial issue. After all, theres another election in 4 years.

If you take the average of four PA polls today, Obama is up by 9.5.

Lets hope it's enough - it should be enough, but as I said, they have a ready made excuse if the polls all turn out to be mysteriously 'wrong'...
 
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droid

Guest
No - I mean the dark ones, the overlords, our KKK/Bilderberg/Lizard/Skull'n'bones/NSA/Neocon/ZOG masters.
 

vimothy

yurp




 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Are you talking about Palast - about whom you're only criticism is that he's a 'pilgerist', or some other unsupported nonsense?

If you disagree that there is a systematic process of electoral fraud in place here then please explain why.



Oh sorry - I didnt realise that I had to pass your sad little purity test.

My posts on this thread have primarily discussed what I believe is the biggest issue in this election, and the wider question of democracy in the US: The attempts to disenfranchise millions of black, latino and working class white Americans in the run up to an election where race is a major issue - something which, (whilst accepting the veracity of the evidence) you describe as 'paranoia' and 'scaremongering'.

I can see how you could draw the conclusion that someone posting about the threat to a fair election and Democrat victory actually wants the GOP to win... :slanted::slanted:


But Droid, election fraud is not even the tip of the iceberg. It's like a little molecule at the tip of the giant iceberg of disenfranchisement of minorities and the impoverished in the U.S.

There are worse things here, in my mind, believe it or not, than election fraud. Does anyone *really* think this is some kind of democracy where every average Joe has a fair shake at the presidency?

There are plenty of things that keep poor minorities from full participation in this country, the least of which is voter suppression.

Take a look at reality--minorities are registering and voting in numbers we've never seen before. Things can change. People can see through Rove-ism at this point. It's done. Its day is over. I don't even think the republicans *want* to win this time--look at their entirely shit campaign that everyone here but the hardcore right thinks is a complete joke.

OBAMA's GRANDMA DIED. omg. I didn't see that until just now.
 
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droid

Guest
But Droid, election fraud is not even the tip of the iceberg. It's like a little molecule at the tip of the giant iceberg of disenfranchisement of minorities and the impoverished in the U.S.

There are worse things here, in my mind, believe it or not, than election fraud. Does anyone *really* think this is some kind of democracy where every average Joe has a fair shake at the presidency?

There are plenty of things that keep poor minorities from full participation in this country, the least of which is voter suppression.

I haven't forgotten - I agree completely. What I think is important (and particularly) nefarious about the fraud, is that all of these other measures - the general erosion of democracy, the ludicrous nature of the 2 party system, the barriers to entry, the apathy that the system is designed to invoke, the crazy electoral college system - which have evolved in order to ensure that the population (the bewildered herd) does not participate are nebulous, systemic factors, whereas fraud on this scale is 'outside' the system. Its not 'playing by the rules' in a game thats already been rigged, and as such it can be identified, pinned down and prevented, and its perpetrators punished. Its also an explicit reminder of how corrupt the system is. One could argue about other elements and how they disenfranchise the population, but there can be no argument about the morals of physically and 'legally' preventing people from voting or binning ballot boxes etc...

Take a look at reality--minorities are registering and voting in numbers we've never seen before. Things can change. People can see through Rove-ism at this point. It's done. Its day is over. I don't even think the republicans *want* to win this time--look at their entirely shit campaign that everyone here but the hardcore right thinks is a complete joke.

I'm not sure if the Reps could turn off their fraud machine if they wanted too. They've already thrown out hundreds of thousands (if not more) new registrations. I'm also not sure that this is any worse than Bush's 04 campaign...

Still - i think Obama has enough of a margin to offset the fraud. I think - I hope he wins by a landslide. If he doesn't there's gonna be hell to pay.

OBAMA's GRANDMA DIED. omg. I didn't see that until just now.

How long before he gets accused of 'helping her along' to win sympathy before the election? He was there just a couple of days ago :D
 
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droid

Guest
On Eve of Election Day, Is the Nation’s Voting System Ready? Reports of Irregularities Pour in from Across US in Record Early Voting

Election Day is one day away. Tomorrow, tens of millions of Americans will head to the polls. Is the nation’s voting system ready for the unprecedented turnout? In record early voting, more votes have been cast before Election Day than ever before. Already, reports of voting irregularities, long lines, malfunctioning machines and badly managed polling stations are pouring in from across the country. We speak to NYU professor Mark Crispin Miller, author of Loser Take All: Election Fraud and the Subversion of Democracy...

Listen: http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/3/on_eve_of_election_day_is
 

crackerjack

Well-known member

I've been staying away from this stuff - the shit I've read already this election, the moonbats have lost their power to shock.

LGF bloke had to put this up on the granny-death thread, cos he knows his readership too well.
I wish I didn’t even have to issue this warning, but there’s a lot of craziness going on.

Anyone who posts a nasty comment in this thread will lose their account instantly.
 
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