East London yoof trouble

mos dan

mos dan

fact music
just because I didn't want it to clog up the grime thread:

gumdrops said:
is there *really* a proper conflict between asian/black kids in bow? interested to know as an ex east londoner.
Click to expand...

apologies for dropping that in without an explanation, i should have known ppl would be interested/concerned. the online version of this article is a complete mess, but i interviewed a bow-based paramedic last year, and he said that gang violence in east london was perhaps not as bad as the tabloids would like to make out: http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/templates/news/detail.cfm?newsid=8647

this is what the TH youth service are doing, btw, lots of positive stuff: http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/templates/news/detail.cfm?newsid=8679

however, there IS trouble. the trend i referred to of black vs bengali strife is down to two schools being closed down in hackney, and the (mostly black) kids being literally bussed in to a predominantly bengali neighbourhood. it seems to be endzish more than race-based, in origin. on one occasion riot police *were* called in. this teacher i met has frequently had to walk kids to the bus stop to get the bus back to hackney (for fear of them being beaten up if they went there unaccompanied), put them in cabs (which he paid for) and so on.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
is there *really* a proper conflict between asian/black kids in bow? interested to know as an ex east londoner.
Click to expand...

There certainly sounds like there is from where I live. I've seen street scraps/narrowly-averted all-out gang fights in my road, mainly between the Bangladeshis who run the Krappy Fried Chicken on the corner, or people associated with them, and local black kids. I've not seen anything *really* nasty happen yet, though, it seems to be mostly bravado and the occasional scuffle.
 
Last edited:
M

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I went to Tower Hamlets College a few years back to do a course and it was like going into Beirut getting into the place, two loads of security guards, metal detectors, the works. The asian kids were in force and looked wicked - very manga - but never saw big conflict, just scuffles.

Big fights I have seen is down Little Somalia amusement arcade in Kings Cross -all the kids at Kingsway and surrounding colleges, bricks going through bus windows, 50 strong posses attacking bus drivers (NOT CLEVER), that sort of stuff.

I can never tell how much of it is race based and how much of it is just gangs, I think there's a difference, no?
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
mos dan said:
however, there IS trouble. the trend i referred to of black vs bengali strife is down to two schools being closed down in hackney, and the (mostly black) kids being literally bussed in to a predominantly bengali neighbourhood. it seems to be endzish more than race-based, in origin. on one occasion riot police *were* called in. this teacher i met has frequently had to walk kids to the bus stop to get the bus back to hackney (for fear of them being beaten up if they went there unaccompanied), put them in cabs (which he paid for) and so on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the closing down of ghetto schools and bussing kids somewhere else is responsible for a huge uptick in youth violence in Chicago as different neighborhood gangs are suddenly thrown together. Over 20 kids murdered this year alone, kids getting killed at school, countless beatings, people afraid to go to school, and the only solution is to put more cops all over the place, when not even the white suburban kids trust the CPD. Absolutely tragic, had no idea this was going on across the pond since closing "failing" schools is part of Bush's No Child Left Behind here. Definitely not racial here since most of the violence is in the black areas.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Gavin, correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall a debate on here a few months ago in which you seemed to attribute concerns over the rise of inner-city gang violence in the UK largely or exclusively to the prejudices of a youth-phobic and probably racist tabloid press... :slanted:

Anyway, the problem of schools facing closure in this country has accelerated dramatically in this country since the introduction of the almighty league table, which by pinpointing 'failing' schools just ensures that they fail all the more, while catchment areas for the better schools get more and more expensive to live in and educational inequality just gets worse and worse. It's this bloody government's performance-figure culture that's doing it.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Mr. Tea said:
Gavin, correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall a debate on here a few months ago in which you seemed to attribute concerns over the rise of inner-city gang violence in the UK largely or exclusively to the prejudices of a youth-phobic and probably racist tabloid press... :slanted:

Anyway, the problem of schools facing closure in this country has accelerated dramatically in this country since the introduction of the almighty league table, which by pinpointing 'failing' schools just ensures that they fail all the more, while catchment areas for the better schools get more and more expensive to live in and educational inequality just gets worse and worse. It's this bloody government's performance-figure culture that's doing it.
Click to expand...

Did you read the first post in this thread where dan quotes a social worker saying that the tabloids are indeed exaggerating it? I'm talking about a US city here, and REAL DEAD KIDS, not stupid headline "SAVAGE DARKIE BRAWL" crap. But thanks for bringing this topic down to petty points-scoring, I've certainly learned a lot.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Um, we've got REAL DEAD KIDS here too, in case you hadn't noticed. I'm not trying to score points, I just think it's worth commenting on when someone seems to take the line that only American cities have 'real' gang problems, while in Britain harmless playground scuffles over football cards and sweeties are apparently being reported as fatal knife fights by the big bad meedja.

I don't read tabloids, ever, and I'm of the opinion that the situation is bad because it really is bad.
 
Last edited:
B

bassnation

the abyss
Gavin said:
Did you read the first post in this thread where dan quotes a social worker saying that the tabloids are indeed exaggerating it? I'm talking about a US city here, and REAL DEAD KIDS, not stupid headline "SAVAGE DARKIE BRAWL" crap. But thanks for bringing this topic down to petty points-scoring, I've certainly learned a lot.
Click to expand...

you don't know what your talking about. kids are shooting each other and its not a figment of our imagination, we actually live in london. lets just drop the patronisation if you don't mind.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
bassnation said:
you don't know what your talking about. kids are shooting each other and its not a figment of our imagination, we actually live in london. lets just drop the patronisation if you don't mind.
Click to expand...

To be fair, though, crime in this country is limited mainly to cheeky tousled-haired young scamps stealing apples from greengrocers, and the occasional vicar getting a sound ticking-off from the village constable for attempting to cycle home after a few sherries too many.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Mr. Tea said:
Um, we've got real dead kids here too, in case you hadn't noticed.
Click to expand...

No I hadn't noticed because I don't live there and no one posted any stories or links to stories (came to the thread looking for some), but add a few more "reallys" and some more anecdotes about how you got mean mugged at the local fast food joint and maybe even set up some straw argument positions for me and you might just convince me.

Actually, just fuck it.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Gavin said:
No I hadn't noticed because I don't live there and no one posted any stories or links to stories (came to the thread looking for some), but add a few more "reallys" and some more anecdotes about how you got mean mugged at the local fast food joint and maybe even set up some straw argument positions for me and you might just convince me.

Actually, just fuck it.
Click to expand...

I've never been mugged, or attacked, or anything like that. I'm white, well into my twenties and moved to London when I was 18, so I'm not part of the demographic that makes up the vast majority of the victims of gang crime (and therefore, you seem to be saying, shouldn't give a shit about it). Figures for crimes like muggings are, if anything, going down. What's increased dramatically in the last couple of years is violent crime committed against teenagers from tough urban areas, never mind who's actually committing it (the same demographic, of course); if you want figures, the number of under-20s murdered in London last year was up more than 50% on 2006, and if this year carries on the way it's started, the death toll for 2008 will show a similar increase.

Bassnation is right, you're talking from a position of willful ignorance here.
 
Last edited:
STN

STN

sou'wester
Mr. Tea said:
I've never been mugged, or attacked, or anything like that. I'm white, well into my twenties and moved to London when I was 18, so I'm not part of the demographic that makes up the vast majority of the victims of gang crime (and therefore, you seem to be saying, shouldn't give a shit about it). Figures for crimes like muggings are, if anything, going down. What's increased dramatically in the last couple of years is violent crime committed against teenagers from tough urban areas, never mind who's actually committing it; if you want figures, the number of under-20s murdered in London last year was up more than 50% on 2006, and if this year carries on the way it's gone so far, the death toll for 2008 will show a similar increase.

Bassnation is right, you're talking from a position of willful ignorance here.
Click to expand...

I guess I missed the other thread, but Gavin did say he came to this thread to find links to news stories about it so any ignorance is hardly willful.
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
STN said:
I guess I missed the other thread, but Gavin did say he came to this thread to find links to news stories about it so any ignorance is hardly willful.
Click to expand...

what does he think we are, google??? i'd be in trouble if i based all my decisions on stuff i've read in dissensus.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top