Politician with some principles?

C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Edward said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7450728.stm


Or am I missing something?
Seems to be talking sense in a non-points-scoring way.

I expect he will lose any bye-eection because it seems the majority of voters believe that they will be protected from terrorism by giving the govt. the right to lock up anyone it pleases for 42 days.
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All very weird, can't quite understand it. He's on the right side of the argument (as he was over the stupid ID cards), even though the Tories are on the wrong side of public opinion on this one. That said, I'm sure he'll walk the by-election - Lib Dems have just said they won't stand against him and Davies will cop enough 'honest man' votes to see him through, not to mention the fact that he's a Tory standing in a Tory seat at a time when Labour are less popular than herpes.

Not really sure what his goal is - personal glory, perhaps. More likely he wants to the tories to cement themselves in as the party of individual liberty and by doing this he could be forestalling any backsliding once they take power (most senoir Tories were privately in favour of 42 days, it's said).
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
crackerjack said:
More likely he wants to the tories to cement themselves in as the party of individual liberty and by doing this he could be forestalling any backsliding once they take power (most senoir Tories were privately in favour of 42 days, it's said).
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I was just thinking this - a good thing that could come from a strengthening Tory party (even if simply by default, with an ever-weakening 'Nu' Labour) would be more MPs in the 'classical liberal' mould coming to the fore on issues like privacy and detention.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
swears said:
He's a Tory, though.
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I wish people would stop saying this like it's 1995 and the Tories are the party of MAGGIE THATCHER MILK SNATCHER and we're all waiting for that dashing young Mr. Blair to sweep away all the corruption and lies...I'm certainly not saying they're great or anything, it just seems a bit daft to hold that against him given the veritable ocean of shit the current government is mired in.

That said, the voting population of London still needs a collective slap for electing that posh prat...

Edit: what bassnation said, too.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
I don't understand why he is standing down and then standing again for the same party. Who is he protesting to exactly?
Although it goes without saying that I agree with him about the 42 day thing.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
IdleRich said:
I don't understand why he is standing down and then standing again for the same party. Who is he protesting to exactly?
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The public. His argument will be that you don't notice the 'slow drip' so someone needs to make a gesture to highlight it. I think he may also have neutralised this as a political issue that could damage the Tories. No one can paint Davies as a wet liberal, so even those right wing papers that back repressive measures will have to couch the debate in terms of grudging respect.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"The public. His argument will be that you don't notice the 'slow drip' so someone needs to make a gesture to highlight it."
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I don't really understand the gesture though - his party voted against anyway so why step down? Then stand back up again (probably unopposed), I mean, it makes news and stuff I guess and in some weird kind of way shows that he cares but I don't see how the protest links to the thing he's protesting about.
How likely is it to become law anyway? Also, are all these allegations of horse-trading or easy rides on other unrelated deals true? I guess they are but it's pretty depressing really isn't it?
 
N

noel emits

a wonderful wooden reason
Well he's not risking much and at the same time he gets a chance to publicly make some points and raise his profile. It's good 'politics' and will probably work out profitably for him, and his party unfortunately.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
Mr. Tea said:
I wish people would stop saying this like it's 1995 and the Tories are the party of MAGGIE THATCHER MILK SNATCHER and we're all waiting for that dashing young Mr. Blair to sweep away all the corruption and lies...I'm certainly not saying they're great or anything, it just seems a bit daft to hold that against him given the veritable ocean of shit the current government is mired in.

That said, the voting population of London still needs a collective slap for electing that posh prat...

Edit: what bassnation said, too.
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Yeah, but nu-lab sucks so much because they've basically aped the tories since day one anyway, innit? God knows how much worse things will be if the actual cons got into power.

You have to remember that in 2000, Bush ran on a "compassionate conservative" ticket and even some liberals in the states were claiming that nothing would fundamentally change in the event of a repubs victory, after Clinton's move to the economic right.

I just think Labour are the lesser of two evils, is all.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
If the Tories had held onto power over the last eleven years, (say in some parallel universe where Labour had kept Kinnock as leader for another five years or something) then I think the Tories would have brought in a similar wave of liberties being eroded, and Labour would be the ones against this. If you're looking for classical liberalism Tea, then I would look to... well, the Liberals. This all seems like point scoring to me.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
swears said:
If you're looking for classical liberalism Tea, then I would look to... well, the Liberals. This all seems like point scoring to me.
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Well yes, I voted Lib-Dem in the London Assembly elections and I'll probably vote for them in the next general election too - I was just talking about the two parties that ever actually form a government in this country.
 
B

bassnation

the abyss
swears said:
I just think Labour are the lesser of two evils, is all.
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its exactly this supine argument that will ensure nothing ever changes. all that nu lab have to say is "well, we aren't as bad as them" and thats supposed to be enough? no, sorry. nowhere near mate. its a real lack of imagination of what could be achieved if we stopped just settling for "a little bit better than the others". when we vote for them on that basis, they take it as a mandate which its obviously not. thats why we are where we are now.

if all we have is the ability to remind them they can be out on their arse, even if it means having something worse (and we'll do the same to those fuckers too, when their time comes) then thats what has to happen. democracy it isn't, but we better use what little power we have before we lose that too.
 
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B

bassnation

the abyss
swears said:
If the Tories had held onto power over the last eleven years, (say in some parallel universe where Labour had kept Kinnock as leader for another five years or something) then I think the Tories would have brought in a similar wave of liberties being eroded, and Labour would be the ones against this. If you're looking for classical liberalism Tea, then I would look to... well, the Liberals. This all seems like point scoring to me.
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authoritarianism is a key component of the left, especially the hard left. its not about freedom, never has been. and thats from someone who regards themselves as left wing.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"its exactly this supine argument that will ensure nothing ever changes. all that nu lab have to say is "well, we aren't as bad as them" and thats supposed to be enough? no, sorry. nowhere near mate. its a real lack of imagination of what could be achieved if we stopped just settling for "a little bit better than the others". when we vote for them on that basis, they take it as a mandate which its obviously not. thats why we are where we are now."
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I think that you're right here. It's this kind of thinking that lead to the 10p tax rate disappearing isn't it? They assumed that the people who lost out on that had nowhere else to go so it made perfect sense to rob them to pay the floating voters on middle incomes.
 
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