Capitalism, Marxism and Related Matters

entertainment

Well-known member
never understood why Marxism still seems to subsume all anti-capitalist movement. why not anarcho syndicalism or some other cool shit?

anyways, I'm at this very basic place: does capitalism have pervasive command over our worldview, what narrative we construct for our lifes in that world and how we form meaning in existence? yes

is that reason enough to abolish it? no
 

version

Well-known member
never understood why Marxism still seems to subsume all anti-capitalist movement. why not anarcho syndicalism or some other cool shit?

I don't really move in those sort of circles and obviously it's anecdotal, but the only people I know who take an interest in this sort of stuff are anarchists. I don't think I know any Marxists unless anyone on here's one.
 

version

Well-known member
anyways, I'm at this very basic place: does capitalism have pervasive command over our worldview, what narrative we construct for our lifes in that world and how we form meaning in existence? yes

is that reason enough to abolish it? no

If the above aren't reason enough for abolishing it, what would be? Also, if it has pervasive command over all those things, is abolishing it even possible?
 

entertainment

Well-known member
it's just too complicated.

I love reading about this stuff. The other day I read a bunch about de-growth movements. The idea made sense to me, that capitalism cannot function unless people get paid. If there's no expected return on investment, no capital flows and the machine breaks down. Ergo capitalism has innate need to keep growing, exponentially. We know that that is impossible in the long run and thus capitalism should be impossible.

There I go, a new idea has taken residence in my mind, re-writing the code of my worldview. But then I start reading about counter arguments to this theory. And those make sense too, and they're supported by math geniuses who've spent their lives studying economics.

So what the fuck do I believe? It's too complicated.
 

entertainment

Well-known member
If the above aren't reason enough for abolishing it, what would be? Also, if it has pervasive command over all those things, is abolishing it even possible?

well what would you abolish it for?

Wouldn't communism have profound philosophical authority over our lives as well?
 

version

Well-known member
Are those the only two options? And will any economic system have that same influence? It's a difficult one.
 

version

Well-known member
I'm curious as to how capitalism would have looked without imperialism/colonialism followed by globalisation.
 

entertainment

Well-known member
me too.

and how would life expectancy, child mortality rate and general standard of living look without capitalism?

I find it ridiculous that some people actually claim to have the answer to these questions
 

luka

Well-known member
One of the alarming things about capitalism is how it relies on creating dependence in order to operate so that all modes of subsistence outside of the market must be elimated as a precondition of its establishment.

So the huge herds of bison are slaughtered and the breadfruit trees are cut down. This is why it is impossible for capitalism to coexist with the traditional tribal societies it encounters (particularly the nomadic)

This reaches a very developed state in the USA where there are all sorts of laws to prevent, for instance, the collecting of rain water.

This total dependence is part of what Burroughs analyses. Control.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
At this point I'd settle for a few more regulations, but apparently even that's a big ask.

Overton Window, innit. Corbyn said on twitter the other day: "If people were trying to create the NHS today, the Tories would call it 'health communism'", which is absolutely spot on.
 

luka

Well-known member
Version what's that Pynchon thing about the man killing dodoes? He's going on a mad dodo killing spree he don't even know why. Kill kill kill
 

luka

Well-known member
me too.

and how would life expectancy, child mortality rate and general standard of living look without capitalism?

I find it ridiculous that some people actually claim to have the answer to these questions

Yes its ridiculous especially as the principles you start with are no garuntee of where you might end up.

But that in itself doesn't necessarily justify better the devil you know thinking.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
never understood why Marxism still seems to subsume all anti-capitalist movement. why not anarcho syndicalism or some other cool shit?
first off, it doesn't. actual Marxists have been marginal in every big anti-capitalist moment of the 21st century.

second off, anarchists tend to be strong on practice and weak on theory, unlike Marxism, which has an overabundance of theory and a highly developed critique

so might you see a person like me (tho I'm not politically active these days) or Eden using Marxist tools of critique despite not being Marxists

there's also a strain of anti-state communism (i.e. Situationists, Autonomen) that isn't far off anarchism, especially in practice
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I find it ridiculous that some people actually claim to have the answer to these questions
that's very largely a strawman

there's a difference between claiming to have an answer and trying to imagine what an alternative world would look like

the former is far more prevalent than the answer

if you want to conceive of an alternative you have to grapple with how it would like, which does sometimes lead to absurdities

applying your thinking to various problems isn't the same as claiming to have prophetic answers
 
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