Hipsters: Scourge or Irrelevence

comelately

Wild Horses
I think it's a fair summary of a lot of anti-hipster and anti-gentrification rhetoric. People in the hip parts of Berlin say exactly the same thing about Schwabians.

Well I mean you would wouldn't you?

A few people will always go too far, but it's unreasonable & ludicrous to summarise a wide range of thought by using the most extreme position, then paraphrasing it a bit more to make it sound a bit more like Nazism. It's desperate stuff.
 
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droid

Well-known member
No, not at all. However there is undeniably an anti-Semitic tendency within both the far right and the far left.

It's more like Nazism arose as a mutant strain of leftism that absorbed historical anti-Semitism, a general xenophobia and anti-Russian-ism in particular and then moved economically to the right after the party gained power.

cover-clip-russian-roots-nazism-0521845122.jpg
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Alright then, anti-Bolshevism/anticommunism. I'm aware of the long tradition of anti-Semitism in Russia.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well I mean you would wouldn't you?

So there's a good way to be vigorously, even violently opposed to incomers, and a bad way? I suppose that isn't totally unreasonable, I mean incomers may have broadly positive or broadly negative impacts on the people living there already, but you must surely concede we're in slippery territory here?
 

luka

Well-known member
One thing that is intrigues me tea is do you realise what you are politically? It's very obvious to us but I wonder if it's clear to you? I'm not suggesting you need to do do penance for being conservative etc not suggesting you should beg for forgiveness just asking if you know
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Luke, I reject this - labelling? accusation? diagnosis? - of me as "conservative", unless the meaning of words like "conservative" and "liberal" has changed drastically in the last few years. Let's go back to the riots for a moment. A lot of people lost their livelihoods, a fair few lost their homes and more than one lost their lives. It would be one thing if these people were all MPs, bankers, Russian billionaires or others who you might say had it coming in some way, but most were themselves just ordinary working-class people. And I was pretty grossed out, to be honest, by some of what I read on the internet, here and elsewhere, by people who were just unashamedly excited about all this, like it a was a brilliant thing in and of itself. There was much talk of this terrible scourge of middle-class smugness, but the smugness I saw came from people who were sneering at victims of this violence, saying in effect "Ha, that'll teach you to OWN A HOUSE like some kind of UTTER CUNT!".

And I was like, is this what it means to be "left-wing" - let alone "liberal" - in 2011? Blaming people who have a little bit, that they've worked for, for being attacked by people who have less? It sounded like the ideology of dekulakization. And it completely ignored the actual cunts who are victimizing pretty much everyone else.

So while I may not be as "radical" (again, whatever that actually means these days, or ever) as a lysergic warrior-poet-mystic or however you wish to style yourself, I don't think "conservative" is fair either. I really do think extreme concentrations of wealth are a terrible thing, that society is grossly devalued compared to the cult of personal gain, that there should be the bare minimum of authority to prevent people inflicting violence on each other (be it physical or economic) and that other than that, people should be left to pretty much do their own thing. Is that really a "conservative" creed I've just outlined?
 

droid

Well-known member
I read about 40% of it seriously and then skimmed it.

Its OK. Way over the top and simplistic. Seemed very enthusiastic about putting forward a new theory and backgrounds a shitload of other stuff - but - does highlight a lot of commonalities between the outlook of the whites and the Nazis.
 

luka

Well-known member
Tell him he's just a mild mannered old school tory pls Craner hes not familiar with the tradition
 

comelately

Wild Horses
It's just common sense godamit!!!!

The truth is that I think context has changed enough that being a liberal in the trad sense just isn't really a real position now.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Or should I say - GLIBERAL.

Ha, just like old times.

For the record I would like to make it known that a) I still don't recognize this definition of 'conservative', and b) I have just returned to my desk from a pipe break.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
One of the main problems for me is the disingenousness of the media reporting on events like Cornflakegate, which purports to be worried about those who have been affected negatively, but typically just disguises an opposition to direct protest in any form. And that that agenda has seeped into popular consciousness, so that (at least recently) I feel that not believing in direct protest at all is a default position for many people. So that a lot of conversations I have about any particular protest/direct action very soon turn into an argument about whether direct protest is OK, full stop.

In other words, is it just me or have a lot of people become a lot more conservative recently?
 
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comelately

Wild Horses
Blaming people who have a little bit, that they've worked for,

All of them? Have you asked them? ;-D

It's not about you making vague talk about deploring 'economic violence' when pushed, it's about the broad-brush generalisations you make. And here we are with the HARDWORKINGFAMILIES~!.

Owning a house that's worth ten or more times what you paid for it is does not make you worthy of having your house smashed up, but it does make you privileged.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Owning a house that's worth ten or more times what you paid for it is does not make you worthy of having your house smashed up, but it does make you privileged.

How about owning a tiny, poky little house that's not worth much at all, or a grotty flat above a little shop? Or renting one? Many of the rioters didn't go very far to do their rioting and a lot of the areas of London that got wrecked are pretty fucking down-at-heel. I don't see anything to celebrate in the image of poor people getting attacked by other poor people.

But then I am desperately reactionary, so there you go.
 
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