"Hello Obama, goodbye meaningful music"

[nomadthethird]

I always promptly replied to emails at work, but then I had to that was part of my job, and until my last position I was never traveling for work so I had no excuse not to.

I do think I know what you mean MMS though, there's a general level of disorganization among some labels in the U.S. (if that's which sector you're waiting for emails from)... a lot of stuff is left to interns, like me, who were really hung over and didn't care.

 

[nomadthethird]

''indescretely'' is how the manz dem spellz it tho

Hehe.

I do know what you mean about Americans being loud, though. And not just New Yorkers.

When I was in Germany I took this boat tour of the Rhine. On it there was this family that was very obviously from the American south. They were talking so loudly it was almost upsetting, and clearly on purpose so everyone could hear what they were saying. They made sure to tell everyone how expensive the bottle of wine they were drinking was.

Then their kid said "I reckon we've been on the boat for three hours..." and the parents said, now where did you hear that word?? And the kid said "When we were in London." And the parents were so stupid, they were like, don't be silly, they don't say reckon in London. And I was like YES THEY DO.

 

[mms]

I always promptly replied to emails at work, but then I had to that was part of my job, and until my last position I was never traveling for work so I had no excuse not to.

I do think I know what you mean MMS though, there's a general level of disorganization among some labels in the U.S. (if that's which sector you're waiting for emails from)... a lot of stuff is left to interns, like me, who were really hung over and didn't care.

its just americans as a 'race', , or cross party consensus whatever you want to call it not any businesses in particular

 

[nomadthethird]

its just americans as a 'race', , or cross party consensus whatever you want to call it not any buisnesses in particular

Ha maybe? I don't know everyplace I was on payroll was very organized but could've been the luck of the draw.

 

[mms]

anyway why is dance or celebration, or hedonism less important than protest again?
isn't that a bit sad, when i read people saying dancing is bad and dance music isn't proper music etc, i'm reminded of the legend of the story of the standing stones the merry maidens, a group of girls apparently which were turned into stone (by god ) for dancing on the sabbath, obviously by utterly miserable people who were probably ancestors of this guy.

 

[nomadthethird]

anyway why is dance or celebration, or hedonism less important than protest again?
isn't that a bit sad, when i read people saying dancing is bad and dance music isn't proper music etc, i'm reminded of the legend of the story of the standing stones the merry maidens, a group of girls apparently which were turned into stone (by god ) for dancing on the sabbath.

Because it offends bourgeois sensibilities...?

Beat-driven music is stripped down and overtly sexual in a way that I think dispenses with bourgeois notions like "music must be politically important to be good" and "music must be lyrically-based to be political", and "music must be about love", etc. It also does away with the myth of the romantic genius and lays bare a production ethos where the way music is a conscious act of artifice and effort on the part of many individuals at many different stages is in the foreground, which is hard for some people to deal with.

I love dance music, how it sounds and even the idea of dancing to it... but in the U.S. we don't have a dance culture of dance clubs anymore (neither do we have pub culture), just "bars" that are a sort of sad admixture of the two.

 

[scottdisco]

i wonder if the author of this article thinks that scenius is a town in Latvia.

 

[mms]

Because it offends bourgeois sensibilities...?

Beat-driven music is stripped down and overtly sexual in a way that I think dispenses with bourgeois notions like "music must be politically important to be good" and "music must be lyrically-based to be political", and "music must be about love", etc. It also does away with the myth of the romantic genius and lays bare a production ethos where the way music is a conscious act of artifice and effort on the part of many individuals at many different stages is in the foreground, which is hard for some people to deal with.

I love dance music, how it sounds and even the idea of dancing to it... but in the U.S. we don't have a dance culture of dance clubs anymore (neither do we have pub culture), just "bars" that are a sort of sad admixture of the two.

also some weird idea that music that complains the whole time is more real, or earthy, isn't the whole of the sixties folk revival based on that conceit, you knows music that complains alot is genuine music of the people cos the people are oppressed, which is a bit insulting really. The fact this guy picks disco to pick on.. i mean give me a break.

 

[nomadthethird]

i wonder if the author of this article thinks that scenius is a town in Latvia.

haha

also some weird idea that music that complains the whole time is more real, or earthy, isn't the whole of the sixties folk revival based on that conceit, you knows music that complains alot is genuine music of the people cos the people are oppressed, which is a bit insulting really.

Oh yeah. It's especially insulting when it's very comfortable, rich white people trying to talk for the poor and downtrod, too.

Like Bob Dylan. I can't remember who it was, maybe Miles Davis, but there were a bunch of those black jazz guys who couldn't stand that shit. There's a story about Bob Dylan throwing a motorcycle into a lake to prove that money didn't mean anything and then a black man who happened to witness the whole thing was really offended and said, if you really knew what it was like not to have money you'd never throw an expensive piece of machinery into a lake.

 

[shiels]

I love dance music, how it sounds and even the idea of dancing to it... but in the U.S. we don't have a dance culture of dance clubs anymore (neither do we have pub culture), just "bars" that are a sort of sad admixture of the two.

What you mean by dance clubs? I was at a few good clubs in Chicago and Miami, best one i was at in miami had loads of people doing all sorts of sexed up grinding and breakdancing to DJ Craze. In fact come to think of it there's loads of good clubs in america and more Irish pubs than Ireland has.

 

[crackerjack]

also some weird idea that music that complains the whole time is more real, or earthy, isn't the whole of the sixties folk revival based on that conceit, you knows music that complains alot is genuine music of the people cos the people are oppressed, which is a bit insulting really.

I don't think it's that necessarily. I just think people like a bit of variety. Politcally minded music will always be the minority - even reggae in the 70s, which is about as politically hardcore as music gets, you'd still get 20 love songs to every 'beat down babylon' - and it's good to have stuff that directly reflects the world we live in, even if commenting on it in the manner of, say, a radio phone-in is a bit naff.

But obviously anyone who thinks lyrically political music is inherently superior to instrumental dance music is a bit of a knob.

 

[nomadthethird]

It's like Deleuze said to Foucault, what we learned from you was never to speak for others.

It's the same thing white people do about hip-hop. I think Luka (I think it was him) was very right when he said hip-hop won Obama the presidency. Hip-hop has done more in the last 20-30 years for bringing black people and their culture and their unique issues and perspectives into the mainstream than probably anything else could.

If you want to be on an even playing field with white people, the media is the place to start. You deserve equal coverage, and you deserve to say your piece without being told by old white men that it's too offensive to admit that most young black men are drawn into lives of violence and criminal behavior just to get by. When white men make ganster films (westerns, mafia, etc.), they're "classics", but NWA is too much? Says who?

 

[scottdisco]

there's a cute anecdote in IIRC Shaar Murray's book on Hendrix about the Beatles (or the Stones, i clearly have no memory) meeting the Supremes for the first time, kind of a 'culture clash' going on there

probably the Beatles, didn't McCartney fancy Ross BTW?

 

[nomadthethird]

What you mean by dance clubs? I was at a few good clubs in Chicago and Miami, best one i was at in miami had loads of people doing all sorts of sexed up grinding and breakdancing to DJ Craze. In fact come to think of it there's loads of good clubs in america and more Irish pubs than Ireland has.

Um. There are some clubs, yes, probably some decent r&b hip-hop type clubs. What were the names of these clubs you went to, do you mind if I ask?

But all-in-all, dance clubs are not popular here. They aren't. Especially not in New York.

They are considered tacky and full of icky Night at the Roxbury guys.

 

[nomadthethird]

And yes, there are Irish "pubs" that are just regular old bars, we don't have the sort of "pub" culture here where everyone from a certain neighborhood or area meets up after work at a pub and everyone knows everyone and everyone plays trivia or whatnot. It's just too big, it's all big, seedy, and anonymous.

 

[scottdisco]

Disco Demolition Night at Comiskey

 

[nomadthethird]

I don't think it's that necessarily. I just think people like a bit of variety. Politcally minded music will always be the minority - even reggae in the 70s, which is about as politically hardcore as music gets, you'd still get 20 love songs to every 'beat down babylon' - and it's good to have stuff that directly reflects the world we live in, even if commenting on it in the manner of, say, a radio phone-in is a bit naff.

But obviously anyone who thinks lyrically political music is inherently superior to instrumental dance music is a bit of a knob.

I think there was some great protest music, I like the Guthries, but I just don't think that was the apex of music for all time and that's what we should be always aiming for.

I do think most music journalists in the U.S. tend toward this way of thinking. Rolling Stone being their Bible.

 

[shiels]

Abbey Pub in Chicago had good line-ups, Smart bar sometimes had decent people playing, they were always packed too, just thought it was weird you saying that. Can only remember the name of one place in Miami, Pawn Shop, ahd loads of second hand furniture and an old school bus up the side, posey as fuck, best looking bastards i've seen, again packed, Richie Hawtin was playing, people were loving it.

 

[nomadthethird]

Abbey Pub in Chicago had good line-ups, Smart bar sometimes had decent people playing, they were always packed too, just thought it was weird you saying that. Can only remember the name of one place in Miami, Pawn Shop, ahd loads of second hand furniture and an old school bus up the side, posey as fuck, best looking bastards i've seen, again packed, Richie Hawtin was playing, people were loving it.

Haven't heard of those places but there are surely people here who have. Miami is full of models and good-looking people for sure. And la coca-AINa.

I'm not saying Americans don't dance, because they do. They'll dance in bars. Hip-hop and r&b dancing and culture make for great dancing and small dance clubs.

What I mean when I say we don't have a dance culture is we don't have the Eurodisco sort of thing I've seen in European countries. There isn't a great big dance club in every city that is where it's at. Trance and that shit is very NOT COOL here. You would never play house music here unless you were at a very hip sort of Brooklyn bar or the equivalent in another city, or maybe if you were at Exit or one of those places that is considered very Night at the Roxbury.

 

[scottdisco]

Abbey Pub in Chicago had good line-ups, Smart bar sometimes had decent people playing, they were always packed too, just thought it was weird you saying that.

those places are cool (i've never been to Miami).

i've certainly been to some nice Irish boozers in NYC, Boston and the midwest, and once had my hair cut in Chicago by a woman whose grandfather came over from Cork and she was saying how 'Irish' bars in Chicago sucked compared to the ones in Boston and, well, hybrids and context and all that jazz.

Phil Sherburne DJ-ing in the Bay Area would be pretty legendary. where is he nowadays, BTW, does anyone know? like in Barca or Berlin IIRC?

still the second summer of love was on our side of the pond, after all, i just think Nomad meant stuff like that (ah just as i'm posting i see she has already answered for herself )