Kate Mossad
Well-known member
Replying to an earlier thread about moving to Berlin got me thinking 'where is the new Berlin?' I mean somewhere with affordable rents and lively music and art scenes. Thoughts? Experiences?
Where to now?
- Thread starter Kate Mossad
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Leo
Well-known member
lisbon? maybe not as cheap as berlin used to be, but more affordable than lots of european cities. great old neighborhoods, great climate, cool experimental music scene.
how about detroit? shit cold winters and might not be able to find a job, but you can buy a house for about $20K!
how about detroit? shit cold winters and might not be able to find a job, but you can buy a house for about $20K!
crackerjack
Well-known member
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Brilliant question! MIght give Lisbon a visit, given what Leo says about it.
I will give this some thought. Surely Moscow should come into its own at som epoint?
I will give this some thought. Surely Moscow should come into its own at som epoint?
crackerjack
Well-known member
during last year's CL final Moscow was sais to be the most expensive city on earth.
Well, it's always going to be useful to go to a few and choose
which is for living, which is for XXX, etc.
'Cuz unless you've checked it, you just don't know right ?
And you have the planet to choose from ...
Yeah , Lisbon feels free or depending on the type of artist - Porto.
If one hasn't been to Lisbon , do it now by all means.
Philly has some things, music scenes . Have never been inside can't add much.
Baltimore on some horizons , seems to keep coming up in terms of East Coast . Ditto
South America . I hear it's summer now in Buenos Aires , multi music scene there
I come back to Tokyo , Kyoto . Again, depends on what yer looking for ...
Berlin still has alot going for it - and will probably remain that way foreseeable future , Leipzieg for art
Moscow got to be great in some ways , but could be ugly in others.
St. Petersburg of course getting the arts nod
Moon .Well , not yet but one can see it
which is for living, which is for XXX, etc.
'Cuz unless you've checked it, you just don't know right ?
And you have the planet to choose from ...
Yeah , Lisbon feels free or depending on the type of artist - Porto.
If one hasn't been to Lisbon , do it now by all means.
Philly has some things, music scenes . Have never been inside can't add much.
Baltimore on some horizons , seems to keep coming up in terms of East Coast . Ditto
South America . I hear it's summer now in Buenos Aires , multi music scene there
I come back to Tokyo , Kyoto . Again, depends on what yer looking for ...
Berlin still has alot going for it - and will probably remain that way foreseeable future , Leipzieg for art
Moscow got to be great in some ways , but could be ugly in others.
St. Petersburg of course getting the arts nod
Moon .Well , not yet but one can see it
Kate Mossad
Well-known member
Some interesting replies thanks. Lisbon? Hmmmm? Sorry to be so Anglocentric but I should have mentioned re. Berlin that one of the things that makes it so appealing is that you can survive with only a little knowledge of German. Is this the case with Portugal?
Someone told me that Oregon in the States is worth checking out.
Someone told me that Oregon in the States is worth checking out.
Not exactly the first place I'd think of, given the other places in the States you could go.
I nominate Montreal, though I live in Toronto.
It is very culturally rich, big European influence (everyone is french), nice architecture, has this pleasant European vibe about it even though it is a big North American city, not many skyscrapers, massive music and art scene, incredibly cheap housing, and in one of the top rated countries in the World for quality of life, and also relatively economically stable!
Toronto is ok, but expensive, and you have to live here for a long time hating it until you like it. Montreal it seems you live there for a long time loving it until you hate it.
It is very culturally rich, big European influence (everyone is french), nice architecture, has this pleasant European vibe about it even though it is a big North American city, not many skyscrapers, massive music and art scene, incredibly cheap housing, and in one of the top rated countries in the World for quality of life, and also relatively economically stable!
Toronto is ok, but expensive, and you have to live here for a long time hating it until you like it. Montreal it seems you live there for a long time loving it until you hate it.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i was about to jump into the mix with a load of continental European, Americas and Asian suggestions but then you mentioned the Anglophone thing Kate.
two US places mentioned i do know: Philly is great, a big, amazing city.
there's a lot of desperately sad poverty, grinding on the west side once you get past around, ooh, 50th or so i'd say. (i know big US cities do have these awful structural inequalities, i'm just saying like.)
Portland in Oregon is well lush, proper foodie capital, not cheap i would imagine (having only passed through for a week or so), but the quality of life there is heavenly if you can manage it.
outdoors living, coffee and beer, a lot of things going on.
Cork or Kilkenny?
(Cork rocks.)
nowhere in Canada is as expensive as T.O. (well and various Vancouver suburbs i guess), so how about Montreal? if you could stomach the winter i might suggest Edmonton, on the Canadian tip still.
(disclaimer: i know someone who moved to Montreal, having hated Edmonton for a long time, but i also know someone - a very cool someone - who thrives on a lot of things there.)
some of the Ohio cities?
Albany, NY i have heard conflicting reports about, some say too quiet for their liking, but there is a college presence (right?), so, i mean, well, i know other folk that dig it lots.
(i am sure Nomad would know..)
which of the Kiwi cities is which, out of the second and third, i forget? my little cousin who has been living in London really slags either Wellington or Christchurch, but loves the other; i think it's Christchurch she rates for the reasons you're looking for.
(again i'd imagine Auckland must be fairly pricey, though that said there must be in the liveliest three of the Oz and NZ cities.)
just seen what Sickboy said and now he's confirmed Montreal prices, i say that. only ever spent about a week eight days there passing through but i would settle there in an instant.
two US places mentioned i do know: Philly is great, a big, amazing city.
there's a lot of desperately sad poverty, grinding on the west side once you get past around, ooh, 50th or so i'd say. (i know big US cities do have these awful structural inequalities, i'm just saying like.)
Portland in Oregon is well lush, proper foodie capital, not cheap i would imagine (having only passed through for a week or so), but the quality of life there is heavenly if you can manage it.
outdoors living, coffee and beer, a lot of things going on.
Cork or Kilkenny?
(Cork rocks.)
nowhere in Canada is as expensive as T.O. (well and various Vancouver suburbs i guess), so how about Montreal? if you could stomach the winter i might suggest Edmonton, on the Canadian tip still.
(disclaimer: i know someone who moved to Montreal, having hated Edmonton for a long time, but i also know someone - a very cool someone - who thrives on a lot of things there.)
some of the Ohio cities?
Albany, NY i have heard conflicting reports about, some say too quiet for their liking, but there is a college presence (right?), so, i mean, well, i know other folk that dig it lots.
(i am sure Nomad would know..)
which of the Kiwi cities is which, out of the second and third, i forget? my little cousin who has been living in London really slags either Wellington or Christchurch, but loves the other; i think it's Christchurch she rates for the reasons you're looking for.
(again i'd imagine Auckland must be fairly pricey, though that said there must be in the liveliest three of the Oz and NZ cities.)
just seen what Sickboy said and now he's confirmed Montreal prices, i say that. only ever spent about a week eight days there passing through but i would settle there in an instant.
I should mention that a big part of the reason me and my friends haven't all moved to Montreal (or the reason some have and come back in a matter of months) are that a) the winters are horrific and b) if you don't speak french it is quite hard to get work (although if you have qualifications, unlike me, you'd probably have better luck).
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i must add Toronto is quality in my book, another city i would move to in an instant, sometimes perhaps unflatteringly compared to (strawman alert!) the cosmopolitan cafe culture of Montreal and the gorgeous emerald that is Vancouver.
but yes i assume Sickboy must know well, as they say, it can be expensive.
a mate of mine was sharing an apartment with some friends somewhere in Toronto, i think all quite handsomely paid jobs TBH and it was a struggle sometimes, she has since left for London (Ont.) area.
this is, BTW, going to sound almost a facetious point, and should probably be in one of the food threads, but even the bagels in NYC - for my money - can't hold a candle to the ones in Montreal. sorry i know that's not art, but i mean it!
just epiphanic.
another interesting point about Montreal, is Quebec (City) visits.
lush
but yes i assume Sickboy must know well, as they say, it can be expensive.
a mate of mine was sharing an apartment with some friends somewhere in Toronto, i think all quite handsomely paid jobs TBH and it was a struggle sometimes, she has since left for London (Ont.) area.
this is, BTW, going to sound almost a facetious point, and should probably be in one of the food threads, but even the bagels in NYC - for my money - can't hold a candle to the ones in Montreal. sorry i know that's not art, but i mean it!
just epiphanic.
another interesting point about Montreal, is Quebec (City) visits.
lush
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Everyone I know who lives in London, Ontario is an idiot. This has given me a very bad impression of London, though I've never been there myself. I should really get out to Vancouver again. So many people love it, but I've been told by other people that I, specifically, would hate it. I don't think this is necessarily true though. Wankers.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
i have been for a night out in London once, and the meal was lovely and, well, it was OK after, but, yes, something of a frat-boy vibe (no bad thing for a hard-drinking European who isn't having to be immersed in it constantly, but i can see how nerves would eventually fray), so i would agree with you.
quite near there in Stratford they have that Shakespeare thing don't they, the festival?
i know people who went to school in Indiana who travelled to Ontario for that (as part of their class, on a coach for ages).
Vancouver is like my native northwest England: fucking wet.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
It says here (lost reference...) that average rent in Montreal is the equiv of £364. Pretty good seeing as it was a fairly 'well-to-do' website.
also the largest Chinese population outside of China. i think.
also where the Jerk Pizza i heard about comes from. which still sounds fucking amazing to me.
I find it hard to believe Montreal has more Chinese people than Toronto. I suppose it is possible though.
re: chinese population: no fuckign way... yr probably thinking of Toronto... the chinatown in Montreal is like the one in Boston, like 5 blocks one way and 3 blocks the other... whereas the one in TO goes on forever...
yes, rent in montreal is very cheap, you can get a 2 bedroom apt for like 800 bucks CA if you look hard...
however, EVEN if you speak French, it's hard to find work there, near impossible if you don't... and besides rent costs, nothing else is really that cheap there (and the heat costs in the winter are a bitch)...
if you telecommute (or have a trust fund), Montreal is a GREAT city... a lot of people who have media jobs/connections in TO move to montreal and get the best of both worlds; the big city paycheck and the "small town" rent... honestly, if i had some sort of skill where i could get paid in that manner, i would seriously consider moving to montreal... the food is wonderful, it's almost impossible to get a bad beer, the people are great, the record stores are pretty awesome, and there's always alot going on culturely...
the interesting thing is, in alot of ways, the Anglo and Franco worlds are still seperate there, even tho at this point the Anglo community is a shell of what it was (read Mordecai Richler for more insight on that... Oh Canada, Oh Quebec is totally dated at this point, but you can buy it on Amazon for like 50 cents and it has interesting reflections on his memories of Montreal in the 40's when it was a world class Jazz and Burlesque town...)
i have a blog that focuses heavily on Quebecois music:
http://tetecarre.blogspot.com
but, yeah, Montreal on a long summer afternoon/evening sitting on a cafe terrace drinking good beer and eating slammin' portugeuese food is one of my fav things to do in the world...
scottdisco
rip this joint please
gloriously OT
mmm jerk pizza.
on the subject of Chinese people outside China, fascinating question.
leaving aside cities in southeast Asia, i would've thought San Francisco, NYC, Toronto, Sydney, Melbourne and Vancouver would all certainly fit that bill for a start?
dunno though, just a thought.
(i know if you're into 'Chinatowns' then Vancouver and Toronto and NYC have multiples. i remember you having a conversation about one in Sydney with Luke, Zhao?)
incidentally, this is interesting, couldn't add anything myself.
from here (not a very well sourced wiki i admit).
heartily applaud Petergunn (great blog mate) on good Portuguese food (as in T.O.) and slamming down the ales.
it's really weird - for me - to be in a Montreal cafe and gabbing away - manageably, but badly - in my pidgin French ('cause i'm a British tourist and eh) and then Anglophone locals come in and the waitstaff are chatting in English to them because why not when everybody can speak whatever.
i fear the above sentence made me sound like an arsehole
mmm jerk pizza.
on the subject of Chinese people outside China, fascinating question.
leaving aside cities in southeast Asia, i would've thought San Francisco, NYC, Toronto, Sydney, Melbourne and Vancouver would all certainly fit that bill for a start?
dunno though, just a thought.
(i know if you're into 'Chinatowns' then Vancouver and Toronto and NYC have multiples. i remember you having a conversation about one in Sydney with Luke, Zhao?)
incidentally, this is interesting, couldn't add anything myself.
from here (not a very well sourced wiki i admit).
heartily applaud Petergunn (great blog mate) on good Portuguese food (as in T.O.) and slamming down the ales.
it's really weird - for me - to be in a Montreal cafe and gabbing away - manageably, but badly - in my pidgin French ('cause i'm a British tourist and eh) and then Anglophone locals come in and the waitstaff are chatting in English to them because why not when everybody can speak whatever.
i fear the above sentence made me sound like an arsehole
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