Addiction

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I wouldn't read that. I believe that thinking about insomnia can cause insomnia. It's very hyperstituous.

I wonder how much of addiction is down to the substance itself and how much is down to situation (is alcoholism always an illness, not sometimes just a product of environment/other problems)? Seems like AA take it as axiomatic that the substance itself is the problem. But some people might just be in an environment that encourages drinking (like Russia) & because it's normative everything is chill until you realize your nightcap isn't just a g & t anymore, it's half a liter of vodka.

Or you might be drinking because you're depressed, anxious or just live in (seemingly) unbearable circumstances (drinking often makes them worse, naturally). I drank every day for three months or so, starting early afternoon and going on until the early hours. But this was due to circumstances I didn't like and wanted to be at a remove from, to kill the anxiety so engendered, little to do with any addiction to the substance itself.

Once I'd extricated myself from that situation, I just went back to 'drinking responsibly' without giving it much of a thought. But seems like according to AA, I should never drink again because I'm an alcoholic for life. It's a 'disease'.

Other times you might spend a week or two drinking heavily on a daily basis just for hedonistic reasons. Celebrating a divorce or something... (heavy drinking is perfectly normal in this set of circumstances, it's not pathological).

Of course, often it is a physical addiction to the substance itself though. And good luck to Craner.

Hmm, but you're relying on false dichotomies, here. It turns out that our environment, our "psyche" and our brains are continuous, not fragmented and autonomous.

Addiction from a strictly clinical perspective is a disease state of the brain in which the various neurotransmitter channels are literally dependent on a substance in order to function (properly or sometimes at all).

It doesn't really matter *how* you get there--if it's because you're sad that someone died, or your life is shit, or whatever--once you've reached a level of literal chemical dependency in the brain, you require medical intervention or you stand something like a 1/5000 chance of ever recovering medically. Even with medical intervention the chances are 1/30, which is a probability of ~.033.

As an analogy, think about someone who has smoked their entire life. It may have been their environment that largely caused them to begin smoking in the first place, ads targeted at their demographic, etc., but in the end, it was the chemical reaction that the substance produced in their body that caused them to become literally dependent on nicotine. (Smoking is an extreeeemely efficient mechanism for producing addiction, and nicotine addiction, which works on several very complex channels at once, is one of the toughest to treat.) Once a smoker gets lung cancer, that lung cancer will need treatment, *regardless* of the whys and wherefores of the smoker's addiction narrative. It's the same with addiction: it requires medical intervention/treatment, no matter where it's coming from. (Dealing with "where" it comes from holistically starts a year after the pt is stable.)

The problem with AA/NA is that its "disease model" is outdated and not backed by clinical research. According to AA/NA, you are an "addict for life", even if the clinical disease state of addiction has been arrested by medical intervention. This way of thinking can actually be counterproductive, because it's guilt based. It's a Christian recovery model that disguises itself as being holistically "spiritual" with no direct religious affiliation.

There is a lot of controversy about the AA/NA disease model among specialists these days. Groups like SMART Recovery and others rely on the clinical disease model rather than the "once an addict, always an addict" remission model, and in general spend a lot less time on slogans and pushing the necessity of adherence to their program. They have lower relapse rates and in general better reputations.

Also: this should come as good news, but you were not an alcoholic because you drank heavily for a few months. Not even close. If you didn't have alcohol withdrawal syndrome when you stopped drinking, then you were just a "substance abuser", not an addict.
 
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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I was in a rehab facility for 6 months due to drug issues, i finished the stay taking all that i felt i could from there. It has been 3 years since and i now drink on occasion and smoke some herb when in my creative atmosphere. I have been doing this for the past 2 years of being out. Now some would say im still an addict, that there is no moderate use for what i do?

Marijuana isn't an issue, my doctors don't even test me for it, they couldn't care less. It's not considered a drug of abuse with serious addiction potential by actual medical personnel. (Not most of em, anyway.)

But you should be careful about who you hang out with...

Congrats on going to school.
 

nop3

Member
Marijuana isn't an issue, my doctors don't even test me for it, they couldn't care less. It's not considered a drug of abuse with serious addiction potential by actual medical personnel. (Not most of em, anyway.)

But you should be careful about who you hang out with...

Congrats on going to school.

Will do and thanks!
 

four_five_one

Infinition
Nomad, what you wrote is very interesting & i agree with it. Seems like you weren't replying to what I was talking about though, only to what it looked like I was talking about, but yr not a mind reader so that's OK.

It all seems 'vague' now even to myself. Hopefully I'll be able to remember what I really meant after consuming about two hours of porn.
 

woops

is not like other people
those that gods wish to destroy they first call promising, but surely you've heard that one before, right
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
A mate of mine got well into AA and still goes to meetings. Says it was the best thing that ever happened to him, get stuck in there Craner.
 

swears

preppy-kei
Guess I'm letting it all hang out here. Craner is "way fucked up." Thank you for listening. I saw a shrink last week (feels like years ago) and she told me I was having an "existential crisis" - it was too Woody Allen to be true.

I'm jealous, the last shrink I saw offered the advice: "Wouldn't it be better to feel happy instead of sad?"
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
i briefly looked into going to AA once about four years ago, didn't, made a big decision to knock booze on the head for about six months to see what it was like, and then did 'settle' on seeing a shrink for a good year afterward.

definitely a helpful choice in hindsight. they were good too, IMO. professional, pretty clear-eyed, got on well but not overly familiar, etc.

i still enjoy my booze, and seem to take it as self-medication less these days, and genuinely enjoy it more. (though still do silly things when pissed, sillier than many of my equally hard-drinking 20 and 30-something peers, so not learning, really.)

i am empty and numb (in general) a lot, but at least i am just an occasional dick w my poison of choice these days.

also letting it all hang out too, i guess...
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
zOMG strangers on a message board heard about my life

Don't have sex with people from NA!

Seriously. Don't.

You will live to regret it if you do.
 
D

droid

Guest
Can you get out and back to family/friends/home for a few days? You need to get out of your routine.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
For what it's worth...

I'm in trouble here.

...here's wishing you the best of luck in finding a way past the booze. I really felt for you last night, seeing your posts about AA and whatnot. I was quite down about a few things last year, and while I wouldn't say it ever reached the level of 'dependence' as such I was definitely drinking and taking other stuff much more than I would have been otherwise (and am now).

You're one of the people who really help make this a great place and it's awful to hear you sounding so hopeless. I hope you get the help you need.

From one Ollie to another...



[This wasn't meant to be an ostentatious-sympathy thing, but your inbox is full]
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Seconding what Mr Tea just said. Very sorry to hear you're finding yourself in such a difficult place, but trust that it will get better, because it will. You're doing the right thing in seeking help, and Droid is wise in suggesting that you should try to break your routine for a few days as well. Chances are it would help.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Sounds like you gots yourself a good plan. You're clearly thinking very rationally, which is always (one of) the main battle in a tricky situation.
 
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