luka

Well-known member
There is very obviously huge room for artistic growth in the games industry, but at the same time there is a psychic and emotional need for wish fulfilment in the world, these crude and effective kicks that games provide. By effectively outlawing that you don't make the need disappear, you just frustrate it.
 

luka

Well-known member
This is related to the f a n t a s i e s thread. Our fantasises are hilariously crude. Saving a beautiful woman from drowning, receiving adulation from a crowd. Good Will Hunting, oh my you're a genius how did no one notice before.
 

luka

Well-known member
Isn't it Shiels. Yes Luke, I don't like it when you manuvere me into saying something reactionary but I have to agree with you there. Sorry You.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
In the 70s gialli, which were exercises in Italian misogyny, the directors and writers often resorted to the female killer trope, which was partly a cheap trick, partly had an erotic element, but also complicated the film and its characters in intentional and unintentional ways. That was cool, because it had nothing to do with external pressures, it was just dictated by the crazy logic of the film itself. That's art.
 
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luka

Well-known member
Art is not and cannot be social engineering. You could invent a law that makes every rapper recite Guardian reader platitudes but it's not how you solve the problems of the world and it's not a way to make music teenagers pressure their parents into buying for them.
 

you

Well-known member
Art is not and cannot be social engineering. You could invent a law that makes every rapper recite Guardian reader platitudes but it's not how you solve the problems of the world and it's not a way to make music teenagers pressure their parents into buying for them.

Of course, but some address of how narrow some genres become (Conan to Gor) and some creative alternatives to the cut out misogyny is not insisting every character be an ultra-intersectional trope subverter, it's to be creative beyond the narrow constructs.... which is what good writing is. Otherwise it's pulp, forgettable re-hashing of what's already been done better and earlier.
 

luka

Well-known member
Well as I say, there's a huge amount of room for and a huge need for artistic growth in the games industry. But at the same time there is a basic need for pulp because pulp is just a literal rendering of our fantasies. Which are stupid and regressive and very base level wish fulfilments. And the market will support both, not one over the other.
 

luka

Well-known member
People fantasise constantly about violence because of all the aggressive instincts they repress. I don't actually fantasise about violence as a rule but obviously people do. People fantasise about beautiful women and fast cars and being a hero. Because in real life there are no beautiful women and fast cars and everything ends in disappointment.
 

luka

Well-known member
And that's great but it doesn't have to be limited to that. The story in RDR2 is pretty good too. And there's a strong kick ass female character. (As well as satisfying wish fulfilment male cowboy hero)
 

you

Well-known member
Well, I don't know if I'm proud of it but yes I love running monsters through with my gory sword and rescuing the damsel.

My favourite M. John Harrison story contains a character on a building site constantly burdening the narrator with details of his sword fantasies, just chopping people's head off, kids, old people, friends, swish swish chop chop thud. Pop off it goes.

At one point the narrator asks him how often he has these dreams and fantasies. He replies. 'Oh, often enough...'

Brilliant.
 

luka

Well-known member
Did you see our fantasies thread you? I can't remember if you were there. You come and go.
 

you

Well-known member
No, I never saw it. Had a quick look now. You said something up thread, and in Fantasies, about the cliché nature of fantasies. I've often said the unconscious manifests as cliché, that dreams are embarrassingly derivative and uninventive. Of course, there is the Jung archetype take on this. But beyond, not limited to this Jung-man's reading two questions crop up. Is the unconscious, its trite gnashing gimp mask tabloid power-sex nature, a reflection of traditional power structures' insidiousness or are these dominant forces in culture so because of our selfish and base selves? Neither prospect is a comfortable thought for 'liberals'.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
You said something up thread, and in Fantasies, about the cliché nature of fantasies. I've often said the unconscious manifests as cliché, that dreams are embarrassingly derivative and uninventive.
I reckon that's why so-called erotica is almost never erotic. Cos it's made by artists who refuse to deliberately write something derivative and uninventive.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I watched an arty porno on the BFI player recently. It was called "Immoral tales". I just fast forwarded to the relevant bits for masturbatory purposes. It felt more highbrow than my usual wanks though.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
What was good about it was that the director kept fixating on these small things that a real porno would be too obvious minded to focus on, but which are for some shadowy reason big turn ons.
 
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