Rolling Afghanistan Thread

[IdleRich]

Yeah it always tickles me how people compartmentalise their religion. I do it myself really, don't eat beef. But I have done as a teenager and eat a lot of fish and chips.

Maybe I said before but one time I went on stag do to Tallinn cos my friend was getting married. I was the only one not Muslim but all they wanted to do was go to strip clubs and get hammered... but in one place the beef dish they had ordered online turned out to be pork on the day and they all totally refused to eat that.

 

[IdleRich]

Of course all religions have adherents of different degrees of strictness... though the kids I used to teach swore that Islam was different in that respect.

 

[catalog]

My electrician is Muslim and we were getting this new house checked out, and he said the guy selling it, a CofE vicar, was weird and rude with him. So I was talking to him about it and at one point he just said "well he eats pigs so what do you expect". He said it in punjabi tho and it was v. Funny.

 

[shakahislop]

Thanks for the clarification. Do you think Taliban would be willing to comply with those who do have global aspirations here, if even uneasily as a geopolitical alliance? Or are you saying such things are simply beyond their stated scope?

yeah i think there has been a degree of cooperation with various global jihad type groups, in particular al qaeda in the late 90s but even nowadays, and there seem to be some connections between people who fought for the taliban and various mostly obscure jihad type groups, in particular one that's trying to Make Uzbekistan Great Again and a load that are focused on Pakistan.

they're very anti-daesh though. and in terms of global jihad that's where the action is.

i reckon they'll probably be super cautious about having any links with al qaeda in particular from now on. I mean they lost power in Afghanistan for 20 years because of al qaeda last time. that said, at a guess they won't be able to ever get total control of the mountains in Nangarhar and Kunar where all the small groups are supposedly hanging out.

 

[shakahislop]

Also I couldn't specify what sanctions there are, which I assume is easily googleable, but my understanding is that they existed over the Afghan government before the Taliban took over, effectively inheriting such negative leverage and default subordinance to western democratic powers.

one of the basic facts about afghanistan is that western democratic powers, or anyone else, haven't been able to bring it under their control. one of the really interesting things about being 'into' that country is that you realize that they have their own thing going on, and in the west we have this idea that its all about us, that it's our foreign policy which is what's important. not saying that it's not important but it's not the only thing that's going on.

i don't know what will happen in terms of sanctions, and the related question of what happens to humanitarian and development aid. it's working itself out now I think. there are huge numbers of people in western governments who have spent years engaging with afghanistan and afghans who were on the government side, and the amount of suffering which would follow sanctions and withdrawal of all the aid money would probably be enormous. its already starting actually. i think there's a lot of heartfelt sympathy for afghans among the kinds of people who make decisions about this stuff.

but the other side of it is that the taliban government literally includes people on the UN and US terrorist sanctions list. the haqqani bit of the taliban caused carnage in kabul for example. they were pretty close to killing me myself in one of their attacks, as a personal detail. they engaged in a campaign of terrorism over many years which was pretty awful. and now those guys are literally in the equivalent of the afghan cabinet.

so i don't know how that's going to play out. i think the aid side will win and there will be a very weird partnership between europeans, americans and the taliban.

 

[shakahislop]

What are Pashtu values like you say?

sorry for the lads comment.

its a bit hard to describe, a bit like trying to describe 'english values' or something, and that wikipedia article will do a better job than me but what i meant was basically that the beliefs of the taliban in terms of stuff like the status of women, the need for a government based on their interpretation of islamic values, justice, are not that different to those of many (not all and maybe not even a majority) rural afghan pashtuns. 'islam' is a central part of what they're about, i mean at the end of the day they are a religious military movement, but that version of 'islam' is really influenced by the values of the segment of the population that the leadership comes from.

 

[shakahislop]

in terms of what i said above about the time i sort of nearly got killed by a truck bomb, i do want to emphasize here that although they never publicly accepted it all intelligence analysts say that this was targeted at me due to my lack of loyalty to Reading after our playoff run in the 90s. if you want to understand Afghanistan it is important to understand that the haqqanis are lifelong Reading supporters and that one reason they want sanctions removed is so that they can get to the Madejski on a weekly basis.

 

[catalog]

Reading is where I went to do the forest bathing. Its a very Ballardian place. A little English village surrounded by a six lane highway.

 

[catalog]

I don't blame you for ditching Reading, you had the ability to progress. If the Taliban can't see that, it's on them.

 

[HannahB]

sorry for the lads comment.

its a bit hard to describe, a bit like trying to describe 'english values' or something, and that wikipedia article will do a better job than me but what i meant was basically that the beliefs of the taliban in terms of stuff like the status of women, the need for a government based on their interpretation of islamic values, justice, are not that different to those of many (not all and maybe not even a majority) rural afghan pashtuns. 'islam' is a central part of what they're about, i mean at the end of the day they are a religious military movement, but that version of 'islam' is really influenced by the values of the segment of the population that the leadership comes from.

Well the Pashtu hospitality thing sounds similar to Iranian practices, which are amazing. england is basically the opposite in my experience, plus even if they did invite you the food would most likely suck

 

[catalog]

Is it the case with those cultures, as with Indian culture really, that an uninvited guest is basically God?

 

[HannahB]

Is it the case with those cultures, as with Indian culture really, that an uninvited guest is basically God?

Idk - and didn‘t know that about Indian culture?

 

[catalog]

It's considered a blessing. Not everywhere, India very diverse, but certainly in a lot of places its the case, I would say

 

[IdleRich]

I think Islam would gain more traction if it pushed the anti mortgage/credit line more and eg all Muslims took their money out of western corporate banks

This comment was probably worth a reply in fact.
Do you know much about Islamic banking? My understanding is that basically you borrow money and pay back more but it's arranged in such a way that it doesn't look like interest... interest also slated in the bible and was banned in Christianity too... until important people needed it.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This comment was probably worth a reply in fact.
Do you know much about Islamic banking? My understanding is that basically you borrow money and pay back more but it's arranged in such a way that it doesn't look like interest... interest also slated in the bible and was banned in Christianity too... until important people needed it.

Banned for Christians to do it, at least, but not for Jews living in mainly Christian countries (who were often banned from owning land). Hence the long-standing association between Jews and banking.

 

[HannahB]

It's considered a blessing. Not everywhere, India very diverse, but certainly in a lot of places its the case, I would say

But which places or cultures in India? I had good and bad. Have not heard that practice which is why I ask

 

[catalog]

Punjab, Sikhism. But also in the South with the Hindus

 

[HannahB]

Punjab, Sikhism. But also in the South with the Hindus

Kanyakumari years ago, a woman slammed a plate of food down on her table at me, angry. Had needed to go on a fishing dow and paid her husband to take me. Didn’t want the rice or her husband, thanked her over and over again. Can’t remember if she relented.

 

[catalog]

why was she angry?

 

[HannahB]

why was she angry?

- it was inappropriate for me a lone woman to go out on the sea with a man on his boat. I was clueless, as a post colonial inconsiderate tourist. That dow was irresistible back then. Or maybe I took all her food plus time spend preparing it. I did pay for the dow trip though. Don’t speak Malayalam so can’t say