Mass shootings

[Mr. Tea]

Thought it was high time we had a general thread about this. Some points about the most recent spate:

* Trump continues to prove there is no absolute zero of decency by offering the usual vapid thortsnprairs and, in the next tweet, reiterating the need for "immigration reform". God knows it's been said before but I think the USA and the world is fast losing its ability to be shocked, if it hasn't already.
* I was disappointed to see the usually excellent Neil D. Tyson saying, in so many words, "Car accidents account for more deaths than gun murders, so chill out". Seriously, what the fuck?
* The right-wing conspiracy-theory industry has already gone into overdrive, claiming the El Paso shooter was a "left-wing extremist", with poorly faked "proof" supposedly showing his Twitter bio originally saying he supported the "Democrat [sic.] party" before the shooting, having been changed to Republican afterwards. (Never mind the mentality you need to assume the Democrats are "far left".) This is part of an established meme I've run across quite a lot on FB, Twitter and so on in the last couple of years among hard-right Americans, which is that they are absolutely convinced their country is in the grip of a wave of mass-murderous far-left terrorism. I suppose an analogy in the UK is Brexit ultras screaming "NAZI!!!" at anti-Brexit MPs, even those in the Tory party.

 

[Leo]

we have the same per-capita level of mental illness as the rest of the world, and play the same video games as anyone else. yet we have many times the number of deaths and injuries per-capita from gun violence.

the difference between us and the rest of the world is the number of guns we have, and ease of getting them. and a gun lobby that spends enough to put our politicians in their pocket.

 

[Corpsey]

Everybody wants to be somebody

Taxi Driver was very prescient about this phenomenon, particularly when it comes to far-right extremist shootings.

Travis Bickle as the proto-incel.

If it came out today he'd be a poster on 8Chan.

 

[Leo]

guess my point is "everybody wants to be somebody" is universal, right? it's human nature, people feel the same way in every country, yet the level of gun violence is magnitudes higher in the US versus anywhere else. human nature is consistent around the world, the availability of guns and power of the gun lobby isn't.

 

[Mr. Tea]

guess my point is "everybody wants to be somebody" is universal, right? it's human nature, people feel the same way in every country, yet the level of gun violence is magnitudes higher in the US versus anywhere else. human nature is consistent around the world, the availability of guns and power of the gun lobby isn't.

The idea that "if you ain't somebody, you're nobody" (i.e. a loser) is probably more widespread in the USA than many (and perhaps any) other countries though, isn't it? Goes back to the dude who shot John Lennon in order to be "famous".

Obviously the phenomenon of mass public gun ownership is particular to the USA.

 

[chava]

Also copycat phenomenon where the shooters refer to eachother. Media should ban publishing their names/photos, although of course that is impossible nowadays.

It is the white disenfranchised/US version of MENA 'terrorists'.

 

[Corpsey]

guess my point is "everybody wants to be somebody" is universal, right? it's human nature, people feel the same way in every country, yet the level of gun violence is magnitudes higher in the US versus anywhere else. human nature is consistent around the world, the availability of guns and power of the gun lobby isn't.

Yeah, guns are obviously the key difference. I'm sure there are young men in the UK who would love to do this sort of thing but simply lack the means. (Pro gun people always say "they'll get them anyway" but I don't think it's all that easy to get hold of guns here if you're not plugged into the criminal underworld.)

Also SSRIs, gutting of mental health care, extremity of the media, etc.

My uninformed impression is that the US has always been a violent place (to generalise lol). Perhaps because it's a "newer" society than the UK, e.g., which I'm sure would have been a LOT more violent a few hundred years ago. Every society is soaked in blood I suppose, if you look back far enough.

 

[Leo]

we're all uninformed (me included) on this to some degree. crime -- particularly violent crime -- is at all-time lows in the states and has been on the decline for decades even in major cities. New York is safer than it's ever been, yet some neighborhoods in Chicago are known as chi-raq. some news reports make England sound like knife crime island, but obviously that's an exaggeration. is street crime in Johannesburg not relevant here because it's more about simple robbery than racist ideology or perpetually aggrieved incels?

 

[Leo]

the US has this ingrained notion of "freedom" -- freedom of speech, right to own a gun, the wild frontier -- that can be easily pushed beyond intended norms to mutate into "I can do whatever I want/don't tread on me" unlawful rebellion. couple that nature with availability of guns and you get the toxic brew of today.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Also copycat phenomenon where the shooters refer to eachother. Media should ban publishing their names/photos, although of course that is impossible nowadays.

It is the white disenfranchised/US version of MENA 'terrorists'.

This happens with suicides, too. And a factor that often gets overlooked is the USA's high suicide rate and the connection to gun ownership. I dunno if Americans are inherently any more likely to feel suicidal than other people, but the quickness and finality of suicide by shooting is surely a big factor - whereas a pill-bosher's stomach can be pumped, and someone who's gone onto the roof of a tall building might be talked down or have second thoughts, etc.

 

[chava]

This happens with suicides, too. And a factor that often gets overlooked is the USA's high suicide rate and the connection to gun ownership. I dunno if Americans are inherently any more likely to feel suicidal than other people, but the quickness and finality of suicide by shooting is surely a big factor - whereas a pill-bosher's stomach can be pumped, and someone who's gone onto the roof of a tall building might be talked down or have second thoughts, etc.

Yes, suicides are not reported in the media and 'alternate media'/social media has lucikly not yet replaced it, although we did have a case with Instagram in my home country recently.

The global suicide rate is way down, though, primarily thanks to pesticide ban/reduction in Asia which before counted for a lot.

I think the mental health institutions are in a pretty bad shape in some places in the US, also community breakdown and mass layoff in some areas do people in. My guess is that the opiate crisis in the US are not overdoses, but suicides. It has been suspected among social workers for quite some time that the vast majority of heroine overdoses are largely suicides or homicides and not accidental.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The global suicide rate is way down, though, primarily thanks to pesticide ban/reduction in Asia which before counted for a lot.

Interesting, I hadn't heard that. Do you mean pesticide pollution was making people kill themselves or that already suicidal people we deliberately poisoning themselves with the stuff?

I think the mental health institutions are in a pretty bad shape in some places in the US, also community breakdown and mass layoff in some areas do people in. My guess is that the opiate crisis in the US are not overdoses, but suicides. It has been suspected among social workers for quite some time that the vast majority of heroine overdoses are largely suicides or homicides and not accidental.

I suspect many of these deaths fall somewhere between 'true' accidents and 'true' suicides. Meaning they're not necessarily a conscious decision to end one's life, more a case of "Everything is so shit, I'm just going to get as high as I can, and if I don't wake up, then so be it."

(That said, the prevalence of fentanyl, which is insanely strong - something like 100 times as powerful as morphine, weight for weight - is certainly contributing to accidental deaths among long-term addicts who know how to handle other prescription painkillers and even street heroin.)

Health organisations in the UK have started keeping statistics of what they call "deaths of despair", which include suicides, deaths from acute alcohol and/or drug overdose and deaths from diseases caused by chronic heavy drinking or drug use.

 

[line b]

Christopher Dorner's Manifesto, In Full [Content Graphic and Disturbing]

In February 2013, police launched a massive manhunt for Christopher Dorner, who was wanted in connection to the fatal shooting a couple in Irvine and a police officer. Prior to the shootings, Dorner composed a manifesto detailing who he planned to kill and why. Here it is in full (all names have...

laist.com

really recommend giving this a skim. wild.

"Larry David, I agree. 72-82 degrees is way to hot in a residence. 68 degrees is perfect."

 

[Mr. Tea]

Christopher Dorner's Manifesto, In Full [Content Graphic and Disturbing]

In February 2013, police launched a massive manhunt for Christopher Dorner, who was wanted in connection to the fatal shooting a couple in Irvine and a police officer. Prior to the shootings, Dorner composed a manifesto detailing who he planned to kill and why. Here it is in full (all names have...

laist.com

really recommend giving this a skim. wild.

"Larry David, I agree. 72-82 degrees is way to hot in a residence. 68 degrees is perfect."

This bit sounds like... a call for more stringent gun control in the manifesto of a mass shooter? (I'm assuming AWB means Automatic Weapons Ban - dunno what TAC is.)

"The Violence of action will be HIGH. I am the reason TAC alert was established. I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty.
If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don't give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That's bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn't even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to "add to cart". All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL's. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR's, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I'm not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!"

 

[versh]

Feels like they're making up for lost time atm. There've been so many recently and there's just been another.

Gunman who killed 8 workers at Indianapolis FedEx site had been detained for mental illness

The 19-year-old gunman who killed eight workers and himself at an Indianapolis FedEx center was a former employee who was placed under psychiatric detention last year after his mother reported concerns he might commit "suicide by cop," police and FBI said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Mr. Tea]

National reserves of thortsnprairs must be at an all-time low.

 

[Leo]

with kids doing remote learning from home for the past year, we have to make up for the lack of school shootings.

 

[polystyle]

The idea that "if you ain't somebody, you're nobody" (i.e. a loser) is probably more widespread in the USA than many (and perhaps any) other countries though, isn't it? Goes back to the dude who shot John Lennon in order to be "famous".

Obviously the phenomenon of mass public gun ownership is particular to the USA.

and who just who likes / liked to over use that term ' Loser ' ...
Grrrrr

 

[polystyle]

Thought it was high time we had a general thread about this. Some points about the most recent spate:

* Trump continues to prove there is no absolute zero of decency by offering the usual vapid thortsnprairs and, in the next tweet, reiterating the need for "immigration reform". God knows it's been said before but I think the USA and the world is fast losing its ability to be shocked, if it hasn't already.
* I was disappointed to see the usually excellent Neil D. Tyson saying, in so many words, "Car accidents account for more deaths than gun murders, so chill out". Seriously, what the fuck?
* The right-wing conspiracy-theory industry has already gone into overdrive, claiming the El Paso shooter was a "left-wing extremist", with poorly faked "proof" supposedly showing his Twitter bio originally saying he supported the "Democrat [sic.] party" before the shooting, having been changed to Republican afterwards. (Never mind the mentality you need to assume the Democrats are "far left".) This is part of an established meme I've run across quite a lot on FB, Twitter and so on in the last couple of years among hard-right Americans, which is that they are absolutely convinced their country is in the grip of a wave of mass-murderous far-left terrorism. I suppose an analogy in the UK is Brexit ultras screaming "NAZI!!!" at anti-Brexit MPs, even those in the Tory party.

Thank you for making the thread Mr.
Neil D Tyson er, wtf ...

 

[wektor]

guess I'd wait

Feels like they're making up for lost time atm. There've been so many recently and there's just been another.

Gunman who killed 8 workers at Indianapolis FedEx site had been detained for mental illness

The 19-year-old gunman who killed eight workers and himself at an Indianapolis FedEx center was a former employee who was placed under psychiatric detention last year after his mother reported concerns he might commit "suicide by cop," police and FBI said.

www.reuters.com

guess they might have became worried of another internet organised siege?