Avant-Garde Cinema

Ian Scuffling

Well-known member
Finally watched Dog Star Man this week and wrote down my thoughts.

My way of judging experimental film has become primarily on the merits of self-consciousness, and subsequent lack of neurosis. My frustration with a lot of experimental films of the 21st century I've seen is they are experimental in the way that one experiments in talk therapy, neurotic and exploratory not of anything outside of the self and one's own personal environment and thoughts. I saw this in Hopinka's films especially; frankly I found them annoying in the same way I find indie rock music that's entirely personal anecdotes annoying.

This film is to me is what experimental filmmaking is meant to be, experimental in the sense of taking a subject and pushing the medium in following it, aware of one's own perceptions but not obsessed and consumed by them, instead trying to use those and a direct material relationship with the medium to push the boundaries of any perception of that subject. Consider Baillie's meditations on the life cycle, obviously influenced by Brakhage. This has a completeness and structure to it that allows it to elevate medium and subject to something subconscious and spiritual; complete because Brakhage allows himself total freedom in what he can do to style, medium, substance, object, subject.

Anyway, Bruce Baillie and Larry Gottheim's films to me evince a similar creative fearlessness. I'm not sure if this is possible in narrative filmmaking, and I'm excited to pursue more experimental cinema from the back half of the 20th century based on these filmmakers. Baillie's Quick Billy and Gottheim's infamous Fogline are masterpieces if any of you are interested. Are people on here into that sort of thing? Anybody got any recommendations along these lines?
 

william kent

Well-known member
I went through a period of watching a lot of short ones on YouTube and tended to go on gut feeling. I could see two similar films and one would just have 'it' and another wouldn't and I couldn't put into words why that was. Some combination of title, editing, imagery and audio would just create magic.

One I really liked, although I dunno whether everyone would consider it experimental, is William Klein's Broadway by Light.


Plays like a mix of Fantasia's 'Night on Bald Mountain' sequence and the night scenes from Taxi Driver, raucous carnival of lights followed by the fading of the night's dance with the arrival of the dawn.
 

william kent

Well-known member
There's a road trip one I've banged on about on here before that's just a camera stuck in the back of someone's car as they drive from the East to West coast of the US. It's about 30 mins and I flicked it on expecting a slog but was pleasantly surprised when it flew by and I was sucked right in. The songs of the day cycling round on the radio, the texture of the whole thing.

One of the directors is a guy called James Benning who's made loads of experimental films where he just leaves a camera focused on the sky or a landscape. Haven't had the patience to sit down and really watch one yet, but they might be worth a look.




 

Ian Scuffling

Well-known member
I love Benning! RR is my favorite but the California trilogy is unparalleled and mesmerizing too, and Deseret is my favorite historical documentary. It's insane to me that it appears to have occurred to no one else that visual stasis is the best way to convey historical text.
 

william kent

Well-known member
I recently found a Letterboxd user who reviews tons of films in this vein. Some of them are on Vimeo and linked in the reviews.

 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
I love Benning! RR is my favorite but the California trilogy is unparalleled and mesmerizing too, and Deseret is my favorite historical documentary. It's insane to me that it appears to have occurred to no one else that visual stasis is the best way to convey historical text.
An experienced security professional would be able to help him with his CCTV camera placement.
 

Corpsey.

Well-known member
I’ve never watched a brahkage film all the way through but I think he’s very good and very inspiring
 

Corpsey.

Well-known member
I don’t know who said that a film ‘is sculpting with time’ but brahkage is that. Literally mimicking the movements of a sculptor with his camera darting about his subject at extreme proximity. One of those genius stupid simple ideas that a tub of homemade goo with interesting lighting decisions looks very cool when you film it an inch away and shoot the camera across it
 

william kent

Well-known member
I don’t know who said that a film ‘is sculpting with time’

Your boy, Andrei. It's the title of his book.

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Ian Scuffling

Well-known member
I don’t know who said that a film ‘is sculpting with time’ but brahkage is that. Literally mimicking the movements of a sculptor with his camera darting about his subject at extreme proximity. One of those genius stupid simple ideas that a tub of homemade goo with interesting lighting decisions looks very cool when you film it an inch away and shoot the camera across it
Watching interviews and docs about him is so funny because he looks absolutely insane shooting those films, yet it's clear it's paradoxically very intuitive and very calculated. Watching footage of him shoot Dog Star Man was what led me to the epiphany in the op.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
One of those genius stupid simple ideas that a tub of homemade goo with interesting lighting decisions looks very cool when you film it an inch away and shoot the camera across it
mcluhan claimed that seeing the image on screen changing and intuiting that the subject/eye is moving, which is what you're often "supposed" to infer, is a conditioned response—someone whose viewing isn't conditioned in that way will look at a moving shot of a forest and think the trees are moving. stuff by brakhage can work like that at times, imo. the difference between a static shot of a waterfall and a moving shot of the sky through branches kind of dissolves. the world becomes more protean.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
(but i know fuck all about this stuff, going to watch dog star man in full later tonight inspired by this thread)
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
I like experimental films, though usually forget the person behind them. Ive been into the 'expanded cinema' stuff at london film festival the last few years. Some of what passes for experimental though is just the films with long takes, endurance test films that do nothing for me but maybe those are the quiet end of experimental and i just like the films that are a bit more in your face. i saw some early john Smith films recently, he manages to be both humorous and experimental. i love william klein too, and vallie export, though im trying to see more modern experimental stuff.
 

Ian Scuffling

Well-known member
I like experimental films, though usually forget the person behind them. Ive been into the 'expanded cinema' stuff at london film festival the last few years. Some of what passes for experimental though is just the films with long takes, endurance test films that do nothing for me but maybe those are the quiet end of experimental and i just like the films that are a bit more in your face. i saw some early john Smith films recently, he manages to be both humorous and experimental. i love william klein too, and vallie export, though im trying to see more modern experimental stuff.
I've just started reading a book on Canyon Cinema, the distributor founded by Bruce Baillie, that's still very active if you're looking for modern stuff.
 

Ian Scuffling

Well-known member
Saw this last year, not bad

 
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