DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

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SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
Not knowing too much about the mp3 spec specifically I'd say that using the same mastering done for a CD would be very satisfactory. When mastering for vinyl you often have to rein in some stuff as it's just not cuttable (will cause the parallel grooves to bump into each other etc) but for CD/mp3 it's mostly about level. If it's what you want you can take the mp3 file and then cut a dubplate and you'll get the vinyl compression sound that many are into. I find it weird that people are still so focused on analog reproduction being superior when much of the music is produced end to end digitally. I can understand where you're doing analog recording and want to end up on a physical medium (in case of inaudibles and other mysteries) but when a track was produced in logic or fruity and bounced as a 16bit 44khz .wav file then burning a CDR seems to be getting closest to what the producer was hearing in their studio.

Don't mean to be polemical about this, more interested in drawing out any interesting counter-wisdom. Anyone with nuts and bolts knowledge of the mp3 spec? I think it's worth talking about as I'd guess a lot of us will be spending some time on this question in the future, it's pretty well past ignoring, even if only as a parallel channel to vinyl and CD.
 
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DJ PIMP

Well-known member
I guess one advantage of getting tunes on vinyl is the cutting engineer will get the most out of the sound. If its straight from bedroom/studio to cd to mp3 then it may not have that polish.

Scored Goat Stare/Root off Bleep and they sound great - lovely sound/engineering. Then dled 28g and the balance/levels in the mix is way off by comparison. Don't have the vinyl to compare it to however...
 
nomos

nomos

Administrator
i only have the vinyl of 28g but i find the bass a bit too boomy and the highs aren't what they could be.

it's good to see tectonic on bleep. would be cool to see skull disco on there as well.
 
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dHarry

Well-known member
SIZZLE said:
...the mp3 spec...
Click to expand...
The mp3 codec broadly uses a combination of i) psycho-acoustic modelling, ii)sub-band encoding, and iii)variable bit compression - sounds far-out, but really amounts to:

i) taking advantage of "masking" - our ears automatically filter out certain competing sound frequencies, allowing some to win over others, so the codec removes the masked frequencies, thus allowing it to encode the data more efficiently. Our ears also retain louder sounds for a moment after the sound dies (the cochlea in the inner ear keeps vibrating for a bit), so these post-moments are used also to encode more fficiently.

ii) the sound is broken down into different frequency bands (as opposed to CD/.wav's digital version of vinyl/tape - straight encoding of the linear signal-over-time). The different bands are then encoded most efficiently (e.g. if no sound occurs in a particular band then this band isn't encoded) and recombined by the mp3-player

iii)It also uses fewer bits at lower volume levels, rather than using CD/.wav's full 16 bits for every sample.

Then the whole thing is zipped up for more mathematical byte-compression (no effect on the sound here)

The variable bit rate I don't think seriously affects sound quality but the other jiggery-pokery definitely thins it out - obviously the smaller the file size the more data/sound has been thrown away, gradually tending towards the flaky transparent sound from tiny files.

Interesting to hear a lot of vinyl-philia around here - an analog medium is more faithful to real sound than CD in theory, but this also depends on the quality of the playback device in question, which isn't always of the same standard as a CD player. Also the perceived "warmth" of tape/vinyl can actually be due to its lack of faithfulness in replicating high frequencies, effectively distorting/filtering the sound.

It's also worth thinking about the original source material for the music - e.g. if the sounds an artist uses as building blocks come from mp3 samples in the first place, then no mastering techniques or playback device can add "quality"/more frequencies to them afterwards.
 
Grievous Angel

Grievous Angel

Beast of Burden
autonomicforthepeople said:
got one :D shackleton had a few extra which he recently sold off
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One of my many regrets is I don't have ANY skull discos and it's pissing me off cos they will be worth loads in five years. Yes, t-shirts.

Vinyl on my reasonably expensive signal chain (I'm about to spend more) has obvious artefacts that are just wrong (bass bloom, treble sibilance etc) and digital versions have much more clarity. But there's still this sense of presence and movement in vinyl that digital sources can't touch until you're talking high-end Linn / Naim.

Maybe we should start a scratch-and-sniff "what hi-fi have you got" thread. I'd find it interesting even if no-one else would!
 
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DJ PIMP

Well-known member
Dubquixote said:
LOVING Skull Disco 03. Deep deep Shackleton business. Look out for that.
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mp3 or cd for me i'm afraid... which means a bit of lag but so be it.

latest acquisitions via bleep are qawwali (smooooth) and bombardment of saturn, which strikes just the right balance for me of being dark and grinding but not too distorted or abrasive...

that track on a pa must make people scream.
 
T

tate

Brown Sugar
Martin's always excellent month in dubstep/grime column went up today at pfork. A tantalizing and informative read indeed. (what happened to jess btw)
 
F

Freakaholic

not just an addiction
Does anyone know who 2krazy is? Just got his mix from Barefiles called "Spring Vibrations" and I gotta say that it is wicked.

I googled him, found a mention of him in Germany or something, but not sure.
 
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SIZZLE

gasoline for haters
yeah 2Krazy is cool people. He organizes the THCell monthly nights out here and is one of the better (best?) dubstep DJs round these parts since he's working to get his new tunes AND can mix. The party is fun, it's in the basement of the Kapital club out in west berlin (near potsdamer platz). The space used to be a bank vault and is really small with low ceilings, and they've brought in a huge PA, much too big for the space so the bass is really direct and encompassing. A much better bass experience than the FWD>> berlin nights organized by Maxximus, though he's the one bringing Skream, Kode9, Loefah next month etc. I was trying to get them to work together but neither was interested, it's a shame because both sides have important ingredients and if combined could form a much stronger movement out here... Still, with the two nights going we've got good dubstep to go out to every two weeks which is pretty incredible and both have been quite well attended (though THCell is tiny so getting 50 people in there feels jammed). A few people making tunes in Berlin as well, some of them quite promising. Feels like dubstep is picking up a nice momentum out here, I could see it developing as a good second city for it, especially with the Rhythm + Sound history etc.
 
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Asger

Matki wandalki
Is Dubstep a step back artistically?

Didn't want to start another thread about this, so here it goes.

The following is a (very dodgy!!) translation of a mate's views on dubstep and I would like to hear what you think about this.

The discussion I had with him online was over a couple of posts, so be aware that there may be references to earlier things in the discussion we had:

"The way dubstep is programmed slower, makes it less rhythmically complex and makes the general feeling very monotone. Play me a tune that couldn't be a slowed down version of a jungle track. It's not for the sake of hating at dubstep - it's more the aesthetics in dub, which doesn't depart enough [as in departing from the norm and creating something new, I guess]... and at the same time it doesn't add anything original [in danish "original" bears the opposite meaning of the word in english - original as in something new and completely its own]... All the build-ups, breakdowns, drills, strecthes are borrowed from jungle or as in drop the limes newer breakcore and after that it's made more homogenious and 'listener friendly' and less uncompromising, which - artistically - is a step back. It's a club genre, which has stolen something avant-garde... Like rap-vocals on top of a pop-track - there is absolutely no difference in the theft, and the animation which is cheaply bought and pulled over the club beat, which is so lousy and hopelessly done that I'm sitting here getting mad!"

Well well well. Even though I find myself in disagreement on some of his points I think his views would be relevant for a discussion - how are your views/feelings about his critique?

/Asger
 
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P

Poet for Hire

Well-known member
"However if one's taking a strictly negative point of view - 2006(!) must be the worst most depressing year for music, I dunno, maybe EVER! The "Energy Flash" of Acid House which Grime for was for some time the last living manifestation of, finally flickered and faltered. I say "living" to distinguish Grime from Dubstep, which I'd argue is the first properly retrogressive manifestation of post-Acid dance music, it's Frankensteins monster, dead flesh propelled by a wholly artificial electricity. I know there are legions who enjoy the music, there are even articles like the new Burial CD, which are perhaps richly deserving, but for whatever reason it fails to enchant me."

In a similar vein, I read this on Woebot's site the other day.
 
T

the undisputed truth

Banned
welcome to dubstep 101 for beginners who missed the bus...

...today we'll be covering fractions, more importantly lowest common denominators and the law of diminishing returns

If last 20 years of UK underground dance/rave/club culture could be packed into one night with an hour for each set/genre...

...it'd be 5 in the morn and there'd be dubstep playing backroom recovery music for stoners

the question then would be...

how many dubsteppas does it take to change a light bulb ???

;)
 
E

elgato

I just dont know
I think its become fashionable to deride dubstep as it begins to become fashionable to enjoy it in a wider circle. I hear a lot of criticism slung about which sounds convincing, but upon scrutiny it falls apart, its just the dressing up of taste in academia. Often based on a lack of information. I fail to see what is retrogressive about the music being made by mala, burial, loefah, kode9, pinch. The final sentence of Woebot's statement is instructive...'for whatever reason, it fails to enchant me' - surely indicative of the essentially arbitrary dismissal, rendering the criticism of the 'dead flesh' meaningless.

Asger, there are so many holes and value statements (dressed up in objectivity) in your mates argument i dont know where to start really....a few examples...

"The way dubstep is programmed slower, makes it less rhythmically complex"

(a) states something as fact which is in fact very very debatable (b) equates complexity as such with progression / value

"All the build-ups, breakdowns, drills, strecthes are borrowed from jungle"

Thats just complete and utter fraf. Its hardly worth discussing

"more homogenious and 'listener friendly'"

Again, I just dont know what he's talking about, most people ive played dubstep to have been completely bewildered by it at first, i dont see how it is 'listener friendly', nor how this can be qualified outside of a subjectivity, nor why this is necessarily a fault. Also, there is plenty of variety in the sound if you know what you're talking about, and have looked beyond the very visible surface and tried to get inside of the music.

"It's a club genre, which has stolen something avant-garde"

Needs soooo much qualification its untrue...what makes a 'club genre', what distinguishes this and an 'avante-garde' genre, does pop=club, can pop/club not exist within the avant-garde, does club/pop=lesser value? And what has been 'stolen'? What is the animation of which he speaks?

"the club beat, which is so lousy and hopelessly done"

It seems that he is criticising the drum programming for failing to fit his pre-conception of what 'good' 'avante-garde' programming should be. The paradox seems fairly obvious.

Im sick of this kind of thing...if you dont like certain music then you dont like it, fair play (id say keep trying cos most (artificially demarcated) genres have something to offer)

But i wish people would stop trying to dress up their tastes up in quasi-academic bullshit
 
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