DUBSTEP- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[bruno]

you'd think dubstep would have been colonised by coke-sniffing dnb fiends by now, what's taking them so long?

 

[Slothrop]

Im sick of this kind of thing...if you dont like certain music then you dont like it, fair play (id say keep trying cos most (artificially demarcated) genres have something to offer)

But i wish people would stop trying to dress up their tastes up in quasi-academic bullshit

ISTR a comment a while back to the effect of 'the day I leave Dissensus will be the day that I read someone say "I used to love that record but now I've been presented with a rational reason that I shouldn't so now I don't like it any more."' I can't remember who it was, but definitely applaud the sentiment.

There's a danger (which I've fallen for all too often myself) to move from trying to understand what you do or don't like about the music that you like and how it got to be so good or bad into letting said understanding guide your tastes. I'm pretty sure I've seen people here starting to move from the hypothesis that hardcore genres tend to produce more interesting records than deliberately consciously progressive ones into automatically dismissing anything deliberately progressive.

Sorry, wandering waaaaaaay off topic.

 

[the undisputed truth]

It's in the music and it's in the people, in the producers and in the fans. Just look at dubstep forum -- lotta love there.

.

nothin but love, it's quite nauseating...

...you can't actually write a diss or a negative comment without some dimwit getting their panties in a bunch

it's not all about the music it's all about control of the music and with Paulie HF, Black da fuck down, and luke.envoy moderating with vested interests there I'd say conflicts of interest are just around the corner...

...no I'm not bitter about getting banned just disappointed

Please let's not confuse bullshit hippy ideals of PLUR with black consciousness and the evolution of afro futurism via rasta in dubstep...

...one is turn on, tune in, dropout, make love, not war, have babies, get married, then sellout to the man and work the corporate angle, the other is war against babylon

black to the future...

 

[adruu]

...no I'm not bitter about getting banned just disappointed

doesn't seem that way to me. imho.

 

[SIZZLE]

re: PLUR, as someone who just caught the tail end of the rave movement in the states (NYC 1994-5) I found that, like the hippies, there were a lot of people on drugs who genuinely thought the world was gonna change and that ecstacy would solve a lot of problems. Turned out to not be the case but made for some nice vibes at the time. Then the thugs found out about raves and started coming and robbing people who were on drugs and shit all went a bit dark.

I have to say I DO find some of that PLUR thing (taken literally, pretty much all of it) minus some of the wide eyed ecstacy addled-ness, in the dubstep movement. Having been working in the grime scene for a bit all the beef, mistrust, arrogance and general non-PLURness that comes from hanging out with a bunch of young thugs can be a bit exhausting. When I started to meet people from the dubstep scene I was blown away by how cool they were, and it made a really positive impression on me. The 'dubstep attitude' is one of the most cool that I've encountered in any scene, I think it may be a response to the grime attitude in a way. Anti-ego, anti-war, pro-sub bass.

As far as people hating on dubstep I actually also participated in that earlier on. I had a very imperfect view of the scene as a bunch of nerdy white guys not doing anything really innovative and stealing the thunder of the predominantly black grime artists. The rephlex 'Grime' comps unfortunately were a big reason for this. Now that I have a lot more information I realize that all of the above is wildly un-true, the scene is not that homogenous, its very sonically exciting and is complementary rather than competitive with grime. More and more people are starting to see that the same way so that I think while there may be a bloglash against dubstep there will be so many people coming through from grime, jungle and other scenes that expansion will be the significant development this year.

As far as the sonic criticisms of the movement, I am a producer who is unhappy to remain in any one sonic area for very long at all and am constantly hopping around (maybe to a fault) and lately dubstep is really tickling my ears purely based on it's vibe, energy and sonic physicality. One of my favorite film makers Wong Kar Wai said we are all going back to the same supermarket trying to cook something new with the same ingredients. I think that's very much the case with dubstep, there's very little new technically (no cut breaks, or idm glitches or accompanying technological revolution) so it's all about ideas and vibes and creating something that feels fresh from the same old drum sounds, sub bass, delays etc. To me it's very successful in that. And yes, I agree it feels very unfair to dismiss is so contemptuously. The people involved are not some hype following trendies, they're very serious, committed people who have invested a huge amount of time, money and love into this scene. Saying 'artificial energy' is just blatantly fucked up, the energy of this scene to me is the opposite of artificial, which is what attracted me to it.

Me and my girl are starting our own rave series in Berlin and we'll be playing both grime and dubstep and booking acts from both sides. I'm actually really pleased to see that unlike in drum and bass where the genre fractured and went into different directions and nameable sounds it seems grime and dubstep are weaving through each others borders and that there will be some interesting developments yet in the space between.

 

[SIZZLE]

And Hell_SD, I'm sorry man but you need to relax a bit. You seem to be having some kind of a crisis being a dubstep producer from NZ or some other major stressor that's invisible to me, but as far as I can see no one is trying to lock you off or stop your movement, it's just that you're being so antagonistic people are sick of hearing it. Just chill, make your tunes and stop pushing peoples buttons on msg boards and everything will be fine. No one can stop you from making music, just do what you do, do it well and let the music speak a bit more than your mouth.

And I know we've had it out before but I actually find it all a bit funny and bear you no ill will, but clearly if you're getting banned your getting on some peoples nerves who are less patient than the rest of us. Lucky for you I don't think they'll ban you here, what with the name of the board and all.

 

[Numbers]

Can't really see where Habermas fits in but if you'd care to elaborate I'd be interested You don't think scenes make decisions (conscious and not) about what they will or won't allow?

Hmm, that question reminds me a bit of that post on dubstepforum.com where somebody stated that the the forum (and the scene, by extension) is deciding on the definition of what dubstep is. But I might have misunderstood your question. Anyway, I'm not sharing that view, no.

My point about scene-engineering was more directed to the momentary discussion there was about how a scene should be well-balanced on both racial and gender criteria and especially the funnily (pseudo-)academic tone -hence the quote of Elgato's post- which was deployed to discuss this topic.

Anyway, you asked for it. Here is my portion:

It is a sociological cliché to state that socio-economic factors -and gender- influence cultural preferences. Or to invert the statement: that certain music will appeal to certain people belonging to a certain social class (no Marxism intended here). To bring this to a point whereas music will or even should change in order to create a democratically organised scene is a bridge too far for me.

And yes, it reminds me of Habermas' idea of longing for a social space "where actors are equally endowed with the capacities of discourse, recognize each other's basic social equality and in which their speech is completly undistorted by ideology or misrecognition (Wiki)." I can't be arsed by searching an equally fitting citation in the man's books, sorry.

It's ironically enough, and probably not surprising at all, that these hippy-ideals (plur?) turned up now.

 

[elgato]

I have to say I DO find some of that PLUR thing (taken literally, pretty much all of it) minus some of the wide eyed ecstacy addled-ness, in the dubstep movement.

Definately man. The producers and promoters in the scene that I have had brief experience with have indicated nothing but humility and respect for everyone around them. The lack of attitude is phenomenal. In my experience they are dynamic and motivated people with a clear vision of what they are able to, and want to, create, and from that I think comes a confidence which (along with other factors obviously) allows them to avoid the paranoia that might otherwise create the problems associated with being the struggling artist in the modern day. It seems that there is nothing they are aspiring to beyond making the music that comes naturally to them, playing that music to as many people (who are genuinely interested) as possible, and sustaining that process for as long as possible. Theyre not on the more overt PLUR of the rave era, and the revolutionary implications, but times have changed, I dont believe that that is representative of the feeling of a lot of youth anymore. But the underlying ethos of holding peace, love, unity, and respect to be ideals to aspire to seems perfectly evident to me in many quarters.

 

[the undisputed truth]

cheers sizzle and yeah I suppose I do/am...

...just pushing and repping hard for ol skool outernational nu-garage cru

fuck dubstep i don't even know what it is anymore...

...methinks it's strictly south london underground music

like Burial...

 

[Grievous Angel]

I am pretty amazed at how clear-sighted the dubstep main players are -- they really are not coked up tossers at all. They're all very humble, genuinely nice people.

When DMZ played here on Friday the PLUR thing was absolutely consistent throughout the crowd. It was rammed and there wasn't one iota of bad atmosphere. I'm gonna do a little thread about it.

There seems to be a backlash, but the critics are pretty wide of the mark AFAICT.

 

[boomnoise]

I'm really feeding off your enthusiasm Paul. As someone who's a fairly recent convert as far as i know, you are proper repping. dubstep is all about the vibes, everyone i've ever spoken to in the scene has been extremely friendly. dubstep is as much about a rejection of bad vibes as it is a celebration of good ones. this is totally clear from the dubstep events.

 

[nomos]

^^ what he said. it's inspiring to see your enthusiasm paul. the positivity is partly what drew me to dubstep and then actually going to a proper event and meeting people just confirmed everything i'd been sensing. great blog post on dmz, btw.

and while i'm all plur and everything - boomnoise your are big. if it weren't for your radio rips i'd have never cottoned on as early as i did. respect.

 

[Grievous Angel]

I'm really feeding off your enthusiasm Paul. As someone who's a fairly recent convert as far as i know, you are proper repping.

Thank you. I'm kinda recent, kinda old. When Steve Hyperdub was putting on the early parties in Brixton I always wanted to go - they were just perfect for the Brixton Bass Pressure blueprint I'd been evolving since the early nineties and they were just down the road from me - and also a bit later when the FWD velvet rooms stuff started, I really wanted to go to them too. Obviously I'd been well into UKG and before that jungle and obviously this stuff was like that, but with extra added industrial and dub - perfect! But having a baby just totally nuked my capacity for going out, and then I moved out of London, and then had another baby, so I missed a lot. I kept an ear out, and I spent most of last year listening to Rinse mp3s obsessively, but the last couple of years I was too busy with work to do much with music beyond the dancehall stuff I was doing with John Eden. I mean, I totally missed out on the Mark One and Vex'd LPs until ages after they came out. I'm making up for lost time now.

dubstep is as much about a rejection of bad vibes as it is a celebration of good ones. this is totally clear from the dubstep events.

SO true. Pure niceness. They insist on it. "Give thanks."

 

[boomnoise]

and while i'm all plur and everything - boomnoise your are big. if it weren't for your radio rips i'd have never cottoned on as early as i did. respect.

thank you it's something i really enjoying doing. tiny cog in the wheel. see it's all love here!

and paul - i'll say hi if your going to be down bash on thursday.

still thinking about going to the rhythm and sound thing but i might not in protest. still can't believe that was booked on the same night. it's just counterproductive.

 

[Grievous Angel]

and paul - i'll say hi if your going to be down bash on thursday.

WIll do fella

still thinking about going to the rhythm and sound thing but i might not in protest. still can't believe that was booked on the same night. it's just counterproductive.

I think it's an accident, and mundanely, the distance between Ladbroke Grove and Shoreditch means the two shows might not cannibalise each other's audience too much. But I sometimes look at it this way:
1. Right now the spirits are abroad and they are expressing themselves via dubstep
2. The spirits want to reach as many people as possible before the current runs out of steam
3. That Thursday 27th is an important night -- five days before the old festival of Beltane, it's the night of the New Moon initiating the celebration of Spring -- with DMZ happening at first quarter of the moon.
4. Having Skream playing alongside Rhythm & Sound on the West Side while Bash happens on the East Side means there's maximum exposure of the dubstep vibe on that night, spreads the current right across London
5. And Skream with R&S invokes one set of dubstep's ancestry, while Bash invokes another set of ancestry - summoning energy from the past that is taken into the future by DMZ on the 6th.

Screw your eyes up a bit and it all makes sense

 

[the undisputed truth]

^^^you poms are a funny lot

 

[captain easychord]

As far as people hating on dubstep I actually also participated in that earlier on. I had a very imperfect view of the scene as a bunch of nerdy white guys not doing anything really innovative and stealing the thunder of the predominantly black grime artists.

same here, i was amongst the most vociferous of haters until last october. checked out FWD and was intrigued, checked out DMZ and was sold. which i suppose is the reaction a lot of people are experiencing at the moment. especially when you're hearing the music over the internet/on MP3 etc. it comes off pretty unimpressively, kind of clinical and lame. which is why going to DMZ and experiencing the quality of the tunes and vibes was astounding. it really is the deeper end of dubstep that is doing it for me. i have a real fear of the genre getting invaded by less creative (coughdnb) producers intent on bringing played out reece basslines to the table and fucking with the amazing space the best artists are working in.

 

[boomnoise]

well, tech itch is already producing dubstep and i do have concerns about people who don't understand the music producing it. this sounds quite elitist but i don't mean to be. what i mean is that to so many people this is a new sound, where as in reality, with six years plus of history behind it, it's anything but.

all the current producers have a deep understanding of where the sound has come from and this, for me, contributes to why the music is so appealing and can have this near spirituality to it, as discussed elsewhere here.

the whole, let's have a bash at making some of this 'dubstep' stuff, attitude which is evident at the dubstepforum, is worrying. i don't think that the punk rock approach works for this sound.

dnb is pretty much the antichrist in dubstep, at least what dnb became is. so it will be a little worrying if more dnd producers add dubstep to their repertoire as just another string on their bow. we'll see what happens though.

 

[bassnation]

well, tech itch is already producing dubstep and i do have concerns about people who don't understand the music producing it. this sounds quite elitist but i don't mean to be. what i mean is that to so many people this is a new sound, where as in reality, with six years plus of history behind it, it's anything but.

all the current producers have a deep understanding of where the sound has come from and this, for me, contributes to why the music is so appealing and can have this near spirituality to it, as discussed elsewhere here.

the whole, let's have a bash at making some of this 'dubstep' stuff, attitude which is evident at the dubstepforum, is worrying. i don't think that the punk rock approach works for this sound.

its all good man. yeah sure, there will be shit that gets produced where people think they have the vibe and instead, misunderstood. but lots of people producing it will take it into interesting waters. its like acid house being produced by british kids who "get it wrong" and end up creating jungle. its painful to let it go but its dissemination is inevitable if it succeeds at the current pace, anyway.

personally i'd like to see enough dubstep tunes released that i can play a set of it without sounding like i'm ripping off one of the originators. until that time i'm only ever going to play the odd bit alongside other genres. i know i'm not alone in wanting that.

 

[SIZZLE]

yeah I agree that as people come in there's a chance for shit to go a bit wrong, but nonetheless I always feel more music is better than less and certainly out of this new generation there will be a few amazing tunes or ideas. And no one can stop the originators from making good tunes so I don't think the existing vibe is in danger. I know a few different people who are having a go at it and the first thing I'd warn people of is: be careful of halfstepping, your tune may just end up slow, when that's not the goal. Even though space and emptiness can be parts of the sound it's important also that there are parts that remind ppl where the doubletime is and keep things bouncy.

Also, try to add something to the sound, don't be satisfied to copy the pioneers convincingly, that's the real dead end.