Cancellations

[luka]

The frustrating thing is they shouldn't need a magic bullet. The guy's openly done plenty of things which should be enough to end his presidency.

i agree. im not defending him.

 

[version]

I can't believe you're defending him!

 

[linebaugh]

I'd be fascinated to hear about the various red pills and rude awakenings that lay on the road to the right for our alt-right stalwarts such Luka and anyone else i'm forgetting.

 

[luka]

im far left. jacobin death squad.

 

[WashYourHands]

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

The guy's openly done plenty of things which should be enough to end his presidency

Trump's corruption is only unusual in its openness and degree, tho even there it's not unprecedented

what is unprecedented are the direct attacks on democratic processes, mechanisms and norms by a sitting President

and what's really unfortunate is the way those attacks have become commingled with his corruption into one largely indivisible whole

because, as all political corruption is politicized those attacks on democratic processes have become politicized under the same umbrella

which is why this passage from that Quillette piece @suspendedreason linked struck me as a total fantasy

Trump’s opponents on the Left and the Right, Frum wrote, needed to set aside political purity and to start thinking strategically. If Trump represents a unique threat to liberal democratic norms, constitutional protections, minorities and so forth, then his removal from office should be the sole focus of his opponents’ political activity. Neither the mass mobilization of peaceful demonstrators nor riots on college campuses would achieve this end; the former is rarely politically effective, and the latter would be positively counter-productive. Instead, activists should identify a single issue on which Trump is vulnerable and then unite behind a straightforward demand, ideally one that can be met with the passage of legislation. As important, opponents of Trump on the Right and the Left must be willing to subordinate all other political disagreements in pursuit of this shared goal.

like, what world is David Frum living in where any of that is remotely possible

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

also to @Leo I think you're overselling the singular importance of the NYT's work in re Trump, but I don't generally disagree

not shedding any tears isn't the same as actively wishing for its demise

that doesn't mean I can't enjoy some schaudenfreude at the cynicism and/or appeasement of the op-ed decisions blowing up in their faces

the NYT having blithely surfed as paper of record through the neoliberal and neoconservative years just gives it an extra twist

 

[sus]

You keep using the word corruption. But Dem impeachment cases didn't go anywhere for a reason. They didn't find the collusion they were after.

 

[sus]

I'm zero a fan of Trump, but if we're gonna throw around works like corrupt/should be removed from office, I'm asking, what are the real findings? What's he really done that you can legally remove a candidate over? He has a lot of gaffes, says a lot of dumb shit, and lacks ethical grounding. But what has he been caught doing, not "what do I not like about his presidency"

 

[sus]

Not, "oh well he made a comment like, we'd really piss libs off by chanting 8 years now so he's trying to perform a fascist overthrow." don't let yourself get trolled; Trump's our most impotent President in ages. Obama was far less constitutional; that's not even controversial. The amount of executive orders? The ongoing foreign conflict? Bush AND Obama are in more dangerous constitutional territory than Trump

 

[linebaugh]

You keep using the word corruption. But Dem impeachment cases didn't go anywhere for a reason. They didn't find the collusion they were after.

they didnt find that he was literally a manchurian candidate, but theres certainly collusion, plenty of instances to allude too. And what he was actually impeached for was another thing entirely and perfectly self evident, just didnt pas for partisan reasons.

 

[sus]

I don't think there's strong evidence for Russia/Trump collusion, I think that's pretty well-established post-Mueller report. Maybe the facts on the ground will change, but the best public evidence says no.

Remember, that attack is the entire foundation for the Dem legal challenge

It wasn't just partisan, please.

 

[sus]

Trump's like people were saying about Lynch in the other thread. All the subtext is right there on the surface.


But his actual actions don't open up much room for legitimate removal; the insistence by Dems as such are partisan calls not grounded in reality.

 

[version]

He clearly still profits from his businesses in violation of the emoluments clause.

 

[luka]

@IdleRich is probably the only guy we have on here that will stick up for Trump

 

[linebaugh]

I don't think there's strong evidence for Russia/Trump collusion, I think that's pretty well-established post-Mueller report. Maybe the facts on the ground will change, but the best public evidence says no.

Remember, that attack is the entire foundation for the Dem challenge

I dont see how you can call it the entire foundation when they impeached him on something else. And there was plenty of evidence for collusion in the mueller report, just, again, nothing to indicate that Trump was living out the plot of a John Grisham novel. I'm not of the mind that Russia's influence on the election was all that dramatic, but its fairly obvious the Trump campaign has extremely inappropriate ties to Russia.

 

[sus]

I dont see how you can call it the entire foundation when they impeached him on something else. And there was plenty of evidence for collusion in the mueller report, just, again, nothing to indicate that Trump was living out the plot of John Grisham novel. I'm not of the mind that Russia's influence on the election was all that dramatic, but its fairly obvious the Trump campaign has extremely inappropriate ties to Russia.

Yeah it was, "We've been promising our constituents blood for 2 years, we better give em something if we wanna be reelected"

 

[sus]

all politics is just political theater; reifying trump's gaudy aesthetics is a mistake

 

[linebaugh]

Yeah it was, "We've been promising our constituents blood for 2 years, we better give em something if we wanna be reelected"

I don't really care how an inept democratic party markets itself. Trump has plenty of legitimate transgressions. Im not going to allow my disdain for liberals to prevent me from acknowledging that.

 

[luka]

the Dudes are at one anothers throats! this is spicier than a bowl of Texan chilli with extra hot sauce!