Cancellations

[luka]

ok, i read it.

 

[luka]

i don't think i hold the views you think i hold. im not into moral hysteria and public shaming. but on the other hand weiss had lots of enemies who were waiting for a chance to stick the knife in and weren't scrupulous about how they did it. that's how these things work.

 

[pattycakes_]

 

[sus]

ok, i read it.

I told you not to read it!

 

[sus]

i don't think i hold the views you think i hold. im not into moral hysteria and public shaming. but on the other hand weiss had lots of enemies who were waiting for a chance to stick the knife in and weren't scrupulous about how they did it. that's how these things work.

I dunno, when I read the transcript of the Times workers talking in their internal chat, it reads to me more like a hypersensitivity and borderline paranoia, this "everyone is against me" narrative that's sucking everything down, what do you think?

 

[sus]

one of them compares her statement to WW2 interment of Japanese in camps

Person B: i guess you get full twitter privileges at the nyt when you are consistently factually wrong

if “interesting” could be used to describe flashbacks of internment of japanese americans

sorry, but I felt that tweet denied Mirai her full citizenship just as the internment did. and nothing will be done because no one was offended! (since we don’t count)

The self-vicitimization-as-machiavellianism angle is interesting, maybe you're right--there are bits in the transcript where they definitely show a kind of resentment toward Weiss's having a platform. Something very zero-sum, "If I can't have it nobody can." You think that's right, and Im just beien a bit naive about motives, or are they sincere in their offense-taking?

 

[luka]

I didn't read the transcript.

 

[Leo]

White US professor Jessica Krug admits she has pretended to be Black for years

double cancelled, by both the right and left!

or do they "cancel" one another out?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

are they sincere in their offense-taking?

I imagine their motivations are complicated, legitimate ideological differences mixed with the personal bitterness of workplace politics

obviously it's not just the tweet itself, but a flashpoint for years of boiling discontent and resentment

it's not surprising people at the NYT have a siege mentality given the stress they've been under since 2016, if not earlier

a basically impossible situation made worse by management's hamfisted attempts to please everyone

which has instead - predictably - pleased no one, and clearly pissed off the bulk of their employees in the process

the different social media restrictions for reporters and op-ed writers is a stupid policy as well

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

pretty hard to shed any tears for the NYT, or especially the pundit class types that populate its op-ed page

but you'd think it would have been much better off staking out a clear position and holding it

they were never going to "explain Trump voters" or reach Trump voters or etc, and the attempt has been one long embarrassment

one of the few small silver linings of the last few years I guess is that made undeniably clear how much "paper of record" objectivity is a fallacy

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

as far Weiss herself, I mean, live by the sword, die by the sword

 

[Leo]

forget the op-ed pages. we'd be in the dark ages without the NY Times investigative reporting on trump. so few places can fund actual reporting, not every paper has a Bezos as their benefactor. yes, they are not perfect. yes, they have screwed at times. yes yes, I know. but we would be in poorer shape without them, and I hope they continue to plow ahead.

otherwise, we live in a buzzfeed world.

 

[sus]

has anything near the scale of what Dems/NYT promised actually been found on Trump? (serious)

 

[linebaugh]

has anything near the scale of what Dems/NYT promised actually been found on Trump? (serious)

what exactly are you referring to? I admittedly don't pay much attention to either the Dems or NYT but the general critiques on Trump are apt.

 

[luka]

the tape showing him being pissed on hasn't showed up yet if that's what you mean.

 

[luka]

they've been trying to wish a magic bullet up ever since he won and if they'd suceeded he'd already be out of office and disgraced.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

has anything near the scale of what Dems/NYT promised actually been found on Trump? (serious)

@Linebaugh answers is correct - you'd have to be specific about what was promised

and you need to separate out the Democratic Party from the NYT

members of the former have gotten much closer to "promises", I would assume

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

they've been trying to wish a magic bullet up ever since he won and if they'd suceeded he'd already be out of office and disgraced.

this I cannot agree with. how does the meme go "ah. well. nevertheless."

as the man himself said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"

 

[version]

The frustrating thing is they shouldn't need a magic bullet. The guy's openly done plenty of things which should be enough to end his presidency.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

they shouldn't, it's true

but there's a pretty strong tradition in American politics of populist leaders openly flouting their corruption

James Michael Curley. Edwin Edwards, of "the only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy" fame.

the logic being that honesty about their personal corruption somehow makes them more trustworthy - "they're all crooks, at least he's honest about it"

this is how Trump can simultaneously be an avatar of personal corruption and say "drain the swamp"

not that he was ever going to of course, but that it was a believable selling point to his base