Cancellations
- Thread starter sufi
- Start date
Leo
Well-known member
have to say I was surprised to see rich's support of trump, but there you go.
linebaugh
Well-known member
Im sorry @suspendedreason the lads are right. Im just not entirely sure of the hill you're on. I cant help but feeling that your time in a new york liberal arts program, surely one of the deepest circles of hell, has left you a little apologetic to the real transgressions of the right
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no one besides the hardest core of his base would seriously deny he's corrupt in general
corrupt in a narrower sense, in specific ways that are legal grounds for impeachment is less certain but not unlikely
what you can make stick in a court is a different matter, and impeachment is by design an especially unwieldy and politicized court
I would agree that this impeachment was more like playacting to a foregone conclusion than something anyone thought would really work
the Democrats bowed to massive pressure and took the best shot they could in the circumstances
at the end of the day impeachment is about whether you have the votes or not, and they didn't. that doesn't mean he's not corrupt.
Leo
Well-known member
fair enough. as a former journalist, I get touchy when conversation swirls around taking a free press for granted (not by you, but in general).
also, to address comments made by others: it doesn't need to be uncovering corruption, it's also uncovering what a politician is doing that pushes the boundaries of the law and normal human decency. you've already forgotten how the press broke news about children separated from parents at the border and put in cages, reporting on how the administration has tried to hollow out the intelligence services, how it's tried to bend the justice department to serve trump personally as opposed to the country, how he's driven out top generals from the military for not wanting to kowtow to Putin and Russia, etc. these are all huge stories that citizens need to know about, and we might not without an aggressive free press.
without a free press, we'd still be wondering whatever happened to Jamal Khashoggi. don't take that for granted.
Last edited:
I was speaking to a friend about cancel culture etc earlier and he said he can't stand the right's manipulation of it, but that it is very real. He went through an NY liberal arts program and said he saw people shouting "Unlearn that! Unlearn that!" in other people's faces and all sorts. Said it was just as extreme and lacking in nuance as the Trump fanatics yelling about fake news.
sus
Moderator
I agree with every sentence in here
sus
Moderator
I think the point about political theater and gaudy aesthetics is important though, and I won't give it up so easily
In real numbers, Trump deported 300k less people than Obama's admin did in the same period. So while Trump's "cages" (and the press coverage around them) are bad optics, we're talking about over a quarter million people less. And yet people still think Trump's on this racist crusade against illegal Mexicans. Meh, the stats don't seem to show it. Trump doesn't do anything, that's his secret, he doesn't actually care
In real numbers, Trump deported 300k less people than Obama's admin did in the same period. So while Trump's "cages" (and the press coverage around them) are bad optics, we're talking about over a quarter million people less. And yet people still think Trump's on this racist crusade against illegal Mexicans. Meh, the stats don't seem to show it. Trump doesn't do anything, that's his secret, he doesn't actually care
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no one's doing that
I am, in fact, often at pains to cite precedents to counteract the idea that he is some kind of sui generis, ahistorical monster
sus
Moderator
(And there are a lot of stats like this: the stuff lefties find reprehensible like accidentally drone-striking hospitals, like getting tangled up in foreign wars, Trump does less of that shit than previous administrations also. Indeed, his impotence has some real silver linings when it comes to leaning off Obama-era increases in the executive branch's power, or leaning back a bit towards isolationism in a lot of parts of the world.
My guess is the reality of the situation is presidents don't have a ton of power over the real workings of their bureaucracies. I don't think Obama pulled a fast-one on us; I've read his college love letters; he cares about ideas and art, he's a moderate, thoughtful, incredibly intelligent, and ethically committed human being. My guess is 20-something year old Barry would fit in great around Dissensus. But at the end of the day...(
My guess is the reality of the situation is presidents don't have a ton of power over the real workings of their bureaucracies. I don't think Obama pulled a fast-one on us; I've read his college love letters; he cares about ideas and art, he's a moderate, thoughtful, incredibly intelligent, and ethically committed human being. My guess is 20-something year old Barry would fit in great around Dissensus. But at the end of the day...(
sus
Moderator
I dunno I haven't been here long but it does seem a little wrapped up in the "remove Trump before we're in a nuclear wasteland" hysteria, but I concede that could be my projection!
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
numbers are important, but it's not just about the numbers and to say so is disingenuous
he's been actively creating a climate of acceptance for xenophobia, racism, etc for the last 4 years
he didn't literally put the gun in Kyle Rittenhouse's hands but he had a large part in making it possible - "very fine people" etc
as far as he "doesn't do anything", sure. news flash, he's lazy and doesn't care.
you can be lazy and actively harmful at the same time
sus
Moderator
I mean I'm in agreement that a big part of the problem is lack of historicism. People talk about Trump like he's just clearly the worst US president. Boy, wait til you read about Andrew Jackson in history class. You wanna talk about the excesses of JFKs, the scandals of the 20th C...
sus
Moderator
Righties say the same thing about AOC or someone "condoning" and "creating a climate of acceptance" for antifa members shooting people in the streets
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
lol as I said to @Linebaugh recently you don't know a goddamn thing about me so don't imagine you do
you're the one who has this massive disillusionment with, of all things, the Democratic Party - the Democratic Party ffs
the grudging least worst option now and always, champions of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory