A Brooklyn Culture Mafia

[linebaugh]

'Is Being and Time a nazi book?' is the core question of the 'is all nazi art bad?' conundrum. Its generally acknowledged that nazis were good with aesthetics. Even has its own over done jokes at this point- hugo boss designed uniforms, the still popular hitler youth haircut. Its natural that the over reliance on spectacular power in the reactionary/fascist strain develops some compelling iconography. Even the MAGA hat looks kinda cool; pepe memes and etc.

but when I hear 'nazi art' I think their strand of socialist realism

which Id say is all bad. its boring

 

[linebaugh]

(This is why some commentators think alt-right production could grab a foothold as "avant"—it subverts the one sacred value of the artworld left standing.)

If this happens it'll be the work of critics thrusting the label upon it and not through any concerted effort of the alt right itself. From what I gather pulling back the curtain on the art world, contemporary art particularly, can be one of the earliest steps in getting 'red pilled'.

(realize now that the last sentence could look like another form of the 'art school made gus racist' joke, but I have literally seen 'contemporary art is bullshit' videos on the same channels that complain about pc culture making superheroes ladies, lol)

 

[kumar]

the picture being painted of hysterical self flaggelating collective breakdown in new york is intriguing and im not going to argue with your lots experience but, relatively, the chronic attention paid by art institutions to marginalisation and colonial complicity is a pretty recent thing still. there plenty of people on curatorial boards over here who were in blackface at parties just 15 years ago.

and perhaps this is extremely naive but i reckon many people are at least fairly suspicious of the shift on behalf of museums and recognise it for the unhinged clamouring for relevance that it appears to be. the solidarity statements pouring out of galleries over summer were treated with the same eye rolling as the proudly declared anti racist objectives of uber. although people expected a bit more from institutions which sell the collected works of paul gilroy in the gift shop.

 

[kumar]

and the hysteria, while completely unhelpful, doesn't seem like a completely cynical disingenuous marketing ploy, i think plenty of people who have spent decades fighting dirty for an established curatorial career probably had to be ignorant of the historical functions of their entire industry in sanctifying the colonial agents of death for centuries, or at least acknowledged it flippantly. and if that catches up with you at 47 then it could drive you over the edge.

 

[kumar]

also, boringly, with the more vacuous elements of the way this hysteria is performed youre talking a lot of the time about the socials of 21 year olds, it wouldnt be fair to expect them to be completely brushed up on the history of attention paid or not paid to marginalised peoples in the art qworld

 

[kumar]

making spurious references to "plenty of people" in these posts so bear in mind i only know about 3 in total

 

[luka]

@Padraig I'm just tellin ya what it is boss, I lived it for years. I have friends working at galleries, museums who had to vet grifter consulters who the institutions paid tens of thousands of bucks to come into their galleries and tell all the employees they were racist and needed to confess. "Employees" here mostly being overeducated liberal uni grads in their 20s and 30s. The most frequent topic of discourse is marginalization, and the next-most frequent isn't even close, I can't even think what it is, I'm not even sure if there is one.

I'm even saying this believing that this can be a net good thing or something, you'll always get bad apples in with the good, Sturgeon's law etc etc—but marginalization/inequality as the dominant topic of interest/discussion? Inarguable.

This is easy to settle in theory. You just check the trade journals, the exhibition catalogues, the artist statements, the glossy magazines, the essays. You look at the institutions, the galleries and art schools. You see who is being exbited and what the rhetoric around it is. You work out what's selling in the showrooms and what is being pushed.

 

[constant escape]

re alt right and avant garde

I'm no expert on memes - they frighten me a bit, actually. But I understand them as a complex and highly protean language of images that can be compounded onto one another, in the interest of evoking particular affects, no?

That would be my guess as to where any avant-garde alt-right scene is, in the production of memes. Especially given their nature as sigils, which apparently play a central role in chaos magic. Heard John Michael Greer talk about that on Hermitix, and heard another guy who runs a youtube channel called Meme Analysis get into it on Justin Murphy's podcast. The latter being more focused on the interpretation of memes as revelatory of collective unconscious developments, Jungianism, archetypes, etc.

Greer made very compelling arguments about the Chans being a sort of anarchic petrie dish for this sort of meme-based chaos magic, and a culture that took to Trump quite well.

 

[constant escape]

I don't know almost anything about chaos magic though. Maybe @DannyL could shed some light on it?

 

[DannyL]

I could, bit pressed for time today though. It's kinda a magical response to postmodernism really. Belief is relative, the magician can draw from and remix from the full range of the world's traditions. Drew on the work of Austin Spare for the sigils and the belief is relative thing - Spare was on some shit, writing about this in 1904. - though arguably without the philosophical depth and interest (and artistic skill) of Spare. Was a breath of fresh air in the early 80s, gathered strength in the 90s. Nowadays people are more aware of the weaknesses of the above as a position.

 

[constant escape]

Nice, I didn't make the connection to postmodernism, which makes sense given the mix'n'match sensibility you mention.

And re: the marvel cinematic universe, I can still tap into my fandom there. I think they're doing an impressive job, in terms of transitioning into more egalitarian waters, bit by steady bit. Chadwick's death is especially unfortunate, given that he was more or less slated to become the new center of the most lucrative franchise in history.

Regardless of whether or not the films appeal to you, I do think they are important cultural landmarks that generate piquant energy within any such culture war. The social cybersecurity scholar, Kathleen Carley, explored the examples of Black Panther and Captain Marvel as instances that generated malicious disinformation efforts, all in a disgruntled alt-right ethos. Someone here introduced me to social cybersecurity and Carley, but I forget who.

 

[DannyL]

I'm super-sceptical about people making memes on 4chan being magic. People are always saying that shit and it says more about their internet habits than anything else.

 

[DannyL]

I recall a discussion on a bulletin board where to "test magic" the participants agreed to try to make it rain in Phoenix (IIRC). It happened! So the magi worked! Um, later in the discussion it turned out no one had actually got round to doing anything..... so some people started to draw the conclusion that talking about it on the internet had made the magic work. Hmmm.

 

[constant escape]

But here is where I;m inclined to frame it as a generational thing, namely that people who grew up on the internet inhabit it more primarily than those whose upbringing was more or less all offline.

Could it not be the case that the psychic energy that was once devoted to offline magic, now is being expressed online? However many anonymous users hashing out some kind of egregore on a messageboard?

 

[constant escape]

But I also frequently make the point that most people who engage in such things are ill-informed, effectively blindly wielding their own powers, having little deliberate effect yet also potentially directing harmful energy to others. And I don't see why online behavior would be any different, essentially. So yeah I'd agree that most of it is next to nonsense, but that doesn;t mean there aren;t techniques to be established and refined.

 

[constant escape]

Like going into some ouija situation just for shits and giggles. Engaging in seances and such things because you like Harry Potter and want such a world to be real, etc.

But I do think that if a certain mass flow state is attained, with enough people believing in a group activity to allow for a kind of self-perpetuating momentum, then perhaps strange and emergent things become possible.

 

[WashYourHands]

But I also frequently make the point that most people who engage in such things are ill-informed, effectively blindly wielding their own powers, having little deliberate effect yet also potentially directing harmful energy to others. And I don't see why online behavior would be any different, essentially. So yeah I'd agree that most of it is next to nonsense, but that doesn;t mean there aren;t techniques to be established and refined.

If those techniques are studied and refined, rather than referenced like edgelord play dough and alluded to as a “whoah, totally awesome man”.

 

[constant escape]

Exactly. Edgelord is a good word for it. Plus, the desire to be clued into some higher realm.

Which can be tough desires to uproot, for some people at least. Very seductive.

But yeah attempting to reap rewards without putting in work is usually just a benign flop, but I tend to have suspicions that dilettanting through something like chaos magic could have seriously undesirable consequences, either for the dilettante or someone within their range.

 

[DannyL]

But here is where I;m inclined to frame it as a generational thing, namely that people who grew up on the internet inhabit it more primarily than those whose upbringing was more or less all offline.

Could it not be the case that the psychic energy that was once devoted to offline magic, now is being expressed online? However many anonymous users hashing out some kind of egregore on a messageboard?

I would say if its all online, it's fundamentally boring rubbish magic. Go for a bloody walk.

 

[luka]

it's more interesting than that in that the Internet is a symbolic representation of the world and the worlds business is moving into that representative sphere.

If you could reach in and change things in the representation then you will have far reaching real world consequences.