NYTimes: Why do men lie about sex?

N

nomadologist

Guest
I read the article on the train, so I don’t remember all the details (though I think it was 4 or 5 sex partners for women and some 3 or 4 more for men, which makes the 75 percent difference seem greater than it is). Two additional hypotheses to the ones already brought forth: 1. A statistically, if not numerically, significant number of the male respondents have bonked a large number of prostitutes. My impression (from their writing) is that they typically cover at least 5 women over a weekender in Prague or wherever; I read somewhere that about 1 million German men pay visit to a cathouse at least once a week — prostitution is legal in Germany — you do the maths; 2. The hunch amongst my friends and I is that women, on average, have had fewer sex partners than men, but that there is a greater discrepancy on the male side (i.e. a great number of men have had very few sexual encounters and a small number of men have had a great many). I could imagine that the kind of men who would lower the mean value in these kinds of surveys are the exact ones that would hesitate to participate, for any number of reasons.

The only thing that I think might account for it entirely are homosexual male encounters. Otherwise you're ignoring the fact that every heterosexual act engages both one male and one female.
 
Sorry to be really dry and boring but the fact that they are quoting median average and not mean average has an effect on the interpretation of the data. I can't really guess why they have chosen to do this because it's very misleading to talk about "averages" of this kind - most people automatically think of a mean average when the term "average" is used.

In a very extreme example, say you have a group of 10 males and 10 females.
If 2 of the females have both had sex with all of the males and the other 8 females are virgins, then the median number of partners for females will be zero and for males it will be two.

Of course I'm not saying everyone tells the truth, just that there are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Sorry to be really dry and boring but the fact that they are quoting median average and not mean average has an effect on the interpretation of the data. I can't really guess why they have chosen to do this because it's very misleading to talk about "averages" of this kind - most people automatically think of a mean average when the term "average" is used.

In a very extreme example, say you have a group of 10 males and 10 females.
If 2 of the females have both had sex with all of the males and the other 8 females are virgins, then the median number of partners for females will be zero and for males it will be two.

Of course I'm not saying everyone tells the truth, just that there are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics.

Hmm. But that doesn't have an effect on the fact that every heterosexual act of sex involves exactly one male and one female (unless you're into the menage a trois or quatre or whatever), so that the number of men women sleep with is always going to equal the number of men women sleep with in any given sample (unless people in that sample are going "out of sample "for sex).

If 2 females have sex with all of the males, and the rest remain virgins, the net result is the same--and the total number of partners for both sexes will be the same.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I can't believe they're using any kind of 'average' other than the arithmetic mean - the results would be completely meaningless otherwise. Also, I think it's assumed in the article that we're just talking about partners of the opposite sex (If not, I could well belive that gay and bi men are generally more promiscuous than lesbians.) And I severely doubt a statistically significant number of people are having group sex (and if they are, why wasn't I invited?).

The idea that men who've only a few or no partners might feel disinclined to parttake in such a study - more so than women - probably has a lot to do with it. See also: penis size surveys.
 
Mr Tea, I am just quoting what the article says:

One survey, recently reported by the federal government, concluded that men had a median of seven female sex partners. Women had a median of four male sex partners.

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

Hmm. But that doesn't have an effect on the fact that every heterosexual act of sex involves exactly one male and one female (unless you're into the menage a trois or quatre or whatever), so that the number of men women sleep with is always going to equal the number of men women sleep with in any given sample (unless people in that sample are going "out of sample "for sex).

Nomadologist, you are correct that the TOTAL number of sexual partners of the males must equal the TOTAL number of partners of the females. But the article talks about the MEDIAN number of sexual partners, which as Mr Tea pointed out, is a pretty meaningless thing to bandy about.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Well then, all it took is for one particular Lothario to skew the results. Whoop-de-doo...as usual the real result reads sensationalist headline 1 - 0 proper use of statistics.
 
Last edited:

IdleRich

IdleRich
Edward is right, if you are using median average (which they say they are) then there is absolutely no discrepancy, it's completely possible for males to have a higher "average" than women without anyone lying and the article just isn't worth writing.
 

martin

----
"By way of dramatization, we change the context slightly and will prove what will be called the High School Prom Theorem. We suppose that on the day after the prom, each girl is asked to give the number of boys she danced with. These numbers are then added up giving a number G. The same information is then obtained from the boys, giving a number B.

Theorem: G=B

Proof: Both G and B are equal to C, the number of couples who danced together at the prom. Q.E.D.”



So basically, he hasn't proved anything, except that he's a grade A timewaster and imbecilic twit.

This is the most pointless survey since UK scientists let police horses kick footballs around on matchdays, to see if it 'calmed them down' when the fans came storming out of the ground.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Edward is right, if you are using median average (which they say they are) then there is absolutely no discrepancy, it's completely possible for males to have a higher "average" than women without anyone lying and the article just isn't worth writing.

The point is not about averages, from what I'm reading in the article. The point is that in an entire population, you can't have one sex having "more" partners than the other total.

Edit: I see your point and Edward's, though, and I'd like to see more of the numbers from this study. Apparently it mirrors most on the subject, from what the article says.
 
Last edited:
N

nomadologist

Guest
"By way of dramatization, we change the context slightly and will prove what will be called the High School Prom Theorem. We suppose that on the day after the prom, each girl is asked to give the number of boys she danced with. These numbers are then added up giving a number G. The same information is then obtained from the boys, giving a number B.

Theorem: G=B

Proof: Both G and B are equal to C, the number of couples who danced together at the prom. Q.E.D.”



So basically, he hasn't proved anything, except that he's a grade A timewaster and imbecilic twit.

This is the most pointless survey since UK scientists let police horses kick footballs around on matchdays, to see if it 'calmed them down' when the fans came storming out of the ground.


What are you talking about? I'm afraid I don't understand the venom in this post.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think it's because the guy's 'theorem' only means anything if you're talking about mean numbers of partners, and (as has already been discussed at length here) the survey apparently quotes median numbers of partners, which is a pretty meaningless statistic as it only tells you how far apart the highest and lowest numbers were, and gives you no information about the distribution of data in between those two extreme points.

So it does seem to be a pretty shoddy piece of journalism.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
oops :eek: article was not about what i thought it was going to be about...

why don't we do a survey here? oh i guess it would be statistical information about a bunch of music nerd boys and... nomad.
 

martin

----
I think it's because the guy's 'theorem' only means anything if you're talking about mean numbers of partners, and (as has already been discussed at length here) the survey apparently quotes median numbers of partners, which is a pretty meaningless statistic as it only tells you how far apart the highest and lowest numbers were, and gives you no information about the distribution of data in between those two extreme points.

So it does seem to be a pretty shoddy piece of journalism.

Yeah, what he said
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
why don't we do a survey here? oh i guess it would be statistical information about a bunch of music nerd boys and... nomad.

How about we don't? On account of most of us (presumably) not being insecure adolescents? ;)
 

Freakaholic

not just an addiction
id like to see a poll.

instead of how many partners yadda yadda...

how about "if you were going to fudge the number, would it be up or down?"

i guess that would depend on whos asking.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think something along the line of "Are polls about how many partners people have had completly pointless? - Yes/Not Necessarily/No" might be illuminating...
 

martin

----
Being serious for a moment...I've had sex with about 15,000 women, mostly virgins. I can get it up after 65 pints.
 

STN

sou'wester
I would adjust the figure down, so that if I were caught in my lie, people wouldn't think I was a massive great braggart.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
i can try to add up the notches on my belt but the biggest computers in the world are busy analyzing data from space or some such.

don't mean to brag but i'm trying to single-dickedly undo the stereotype of the sexually inadequate asian male. almost was in a porno film in LA but decided it was a bad idea...
 
Top