Tory bastards

thirdform

Well-known member
I couldn't give a fuck what you think about music criticism (or anything else for that matter), the point is that you made someone (actually a good poster who just gave their opinion - hardly "forced your hand" which is a classic wifebeater's defence anyway) feel uncomfortable and talk about leaving the forum.

I didn't know you were intimately familiar with the private lives of wifebeaters to just make random accusations like that. Interesting.

I note you also cannot tell me what I said was wrong in that thread before he made that comment about failing to finger women. Not all opinions are valid, you should know that.
 
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wild greens

Well-known member
Bemoaning the lack of progress from the European left is one thing- they are shite and mostly ineffectual, I agree. Violent uprising probably isn't the answer, however entertaining the idea might be. Genuine working class representation is the only way the world will progress but its stifled so easily that only a genuine cult of personality would allow it to happen here. A socialist trump-style figure who does not give one fuck.

But the self-righteous obsession with ancient historic tests renders most points invalid at this point, don't you think? I mean, Situationist International and all that shit is almost 60 years old now. Oh lets undertake some subversive acts- what did it achieve. Absolutely nothing.

Until your idealistic revolutionary ideals modernise themselves or there is a conceptual awakening amongst "left" digital terrorists etc- all real battles are digital now and not fought in the streets, whether pacifist or violent, take your pick- then clinging to historic ideas that pre-date the internet, or assuming your criticisms are somehow more valid because you can cite what happened in 1972 are just as ineffectual as sleepwalking into police assault so you can protest being assaulted by the police.

In one hand we have a dismissal of the Iraq protests- I agree, they did nothing- as living in the past and then dozens of paragraphs from old cunts who are irrelevant now.

The "right" is light years ahead of any labour movement in terms of media (social and dying print) and until the "left" are able to realise that then there won't be any progress.

But for all the furore and anger you're showing here, @thirdform - however admirable it may be- your points of reference are as dated as the ideology that the "left" attempts to utilise.

Modernisation is the only route.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I'm not a politician though. I don't claim to want politics or even be represented by it. if I die from starvation, I die, and if I somehow manage to make a fat wad of money (highly unlikely) I do so. I have no need to liberate people, much less moralise about it. It's correct that a working class revolution may not come, but what does modernisation actually amount to in your schema? A better utilisation of the existing political apparatus, for, what? You kind of prove your own point. The right are infinitely better at politics because their politics are not negative and reactive, they go along with existing capitalism. But apparently I'm evil for noting how reactionary the labour party has been? I don't see how what you're actually saying doesn't actually kind of go against the anti-tory sentiment on this thread. For what it's worth I don't hate the tories more than labour, if anything I can sort of respect them, for their ruthless honesty. It's an honesty that is unpalatable, I agree, they can be cold and callous, but that's what politics is anyway. war is only armed politics.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
no we cant
this is all just a big april fool joke i assume? 🤡
apart from it's after midday in portugal :(
Well it wasn't me making the "joke" and Portugal is on the same longitude as England so it's 11.48 now.

I didn't know you were intimately familiar with the private lives of wifebeaters to just make random accusations like that. Interesting.

I note you also cannot tell me what I said was wrong in that thread before he made that comment about failing to finger women. Not all opinions are valid, you should know that.
More deflection. You're a bully is all and I don't like it.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Bemoaning the lack of progress from the European left is one thing- they are shite and mostly ineffectual, I agree. Violent uprising probably isn't the answer, however entertaining the idea might be. Genuine working class representation is the only way the world will progress but its stifled so easily that only a genuine cult of personality would allow it to happen here. A socialist trump-style figure who does not give one fuck.

But the self-righteous obsession with ancient historic tests renders most points invalid at this point, don't you think? I mean, Situationist International and all that shit is almost 60 years old now. Oh lets undertake some subversive acts- what did it achieve. Absolutely nothing.

Until your idealistic revolutionary ideals modernise themselves or there is a conceptual awakening amongst "left" digital terrorists etc- all real battles are digital now and not fought in the streets, whether pacifist or violent, take your pick- then clinging to historic ideas that pre-date the internet, or assuming your criticisms are somehow more valid because you can cite what happened in 1972 are just as ineffectual as sleepwalking into police assault so you can protest being assaulted by the police.

In one hand we have a dismissal of the Iraq protests- I agree, they did nothing- as living in the past and then dozens of paragraphs from old cunts who are irrelevant now.

The "right" is light years ahead of any labour movement in terms of media (social and dying print) and until the "left" are able to realise that then there won't be any progress.

But for all the furore and anger you're showing here, @thirdform - however admirable it may be- your points of reference are as dated as the ideology that the "left" attempts to utilise.

Modernisation is the only route.

You also somewhat misconstrue my argument here. I'm arguing that the left is finished. It doesn't matter. Your argument is the inverse, that the left is stuck in the past. In which case yes, you'd be right. But I see the left as ultimately democratic jacobins. They civilised capitalisms mature development (which they mistook for socialism) and now that they have completed that task, they actually have nothing substantial left to do. hence why they are at war with themselves, more than ever. Because of course, one cannot abolish a mode of production by will.

The crisis is actually way more fucked than people think it is, but people find what I say angered and offensive because they are afraid that maybe the only political outlook remaining is nihilism.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
But apparently I'm evil for noting how reactionary the labour party has been?

Nah never that, what I'm saying is that trying to cite historical references like your mate Khayati is sticking your head in the sand. Yes you're not a political figure but you're getting stuck into a thread about modern day politics so your points are an attempt to create a viewpoint on it. Don't back away from the situation- "I'm not trying to do this". Of course you are, you wouldn't be moralising at 6am if you weren't.

But - these texts are figures of the past, they're as irrelevant to modern day society as fucking Ossie Ardilles or something.

Labour are just as bad, as the frames of reference in the thread, and I have zero respect for their current guise. They're weak. And yes I think they do need to utilise the current political system because they are not sharp enough to create a new one
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Nah never that, what I'm saying is that trying to cite historical references like your mate Khayati is sticking your head in the sand. Yes you're not a political figure but you're getting stuck into a thread about modern day politics so your points are an attempt to create a viewpoint on it. Don't back away from the situation- "I'm not trying to do this". Of course you are, you wouldn't be moralising at 6am if you weren't.

But - these texts are figures of the past, they're as irrelevant to modern day society as fucking Ossie Ardilles or something.

Labour are just as bad, as the frames of reference in the thread, and I have zero respect for their current guise. They're weak. And yes I think they do need to utilise the current political system because they are not sharp enough to create a new one

I mean I have to disagree. I'm not sure how you can look at modern day society by not looking at its past. And the observations Khayati make, whilst 60 years ago, are still something we live with today. A million protests as the spectacular. The problem isn't these protests achieve nothing - I don't care about that. It's how they are inflated beyond what they actually are, as if they cary that immediate meaning.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
You didn't ask a question, but don't bother to correct that cos if you do I won't answer it anyhow.

So you still cannot answer why I deserved to be condescended over expressing some mild views in that thread. That deflection too? you're really tying yourself in knots here.
 

wild greens

Well-known member
I don't think anyone thinks street protest carry any weight. They're ridiculed by all quarters and ignored by politicians regardless.

The Khayati argument makes the assumption that these events are given credence by wider society as a mark of change- they don't, unless you're listening to the echo chamber they attempt to present.

You need to embrace digital disruption now if you wish to be relevant, the arguments of the past are done.

Clinging to past ideologies is what you criticise the "left" for, in the argument that its dead an buried. What are you doing that's any different
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
So you still cannot answer why I deserved to be condescended over expressing some mild views in that thread. That deflection too? you're really tying yourself in knots here.
Look, I don't want to get into a stupid argument, I'm glad you liked the radio show. I just don't think anyone should be making anyone uncomfortable to the point that they want to leave the forum. That's it.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I don't think anyone thinks street protest carry any weight. They're ridiculed by all quarters and ignored by politicians regardless.

The Khayati argument makes the assumption that these events are given credence by wider society as a mark of change- they don't, unless you're listening to the echo chamber they attempt to present.

You need to embrace digital disruption now if you wish to be relevant, the arguments of the past are done.

Clinging to past ideologies is what you criticise the "left" for, in the argument that its dead an buried. What are you doing that's any different

No, I think leftist ideology is not dead. I think the left cannot achieve anything more materially, as an actively determining political actor, but its ideology as a form of secular religion will always persist.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Look, I don't want to get into a stupid argument, I'm glad you liked the radio show. I just don't think anyone should be making anyone uncomfortable to the point that they want to leave the forum. That's it.

Agreed. But if you're going to imply I'm a failed sex pest, at least do it in a way that you can back up your opinions. Don't run away scuttling when someone throws it back at you.

which is precisely why I amended: (edit: yeah that'll be useful to post to illustrate how unenlightened I am and how enlightened you are)
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Just because its a style of writing that he doesn't understand, or find hard to parse, doesn't mean there isn't a method there. Yes, sometimes I can be scatter-brained about this, but it's to generate a bit of excitedness.
 
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