Circle/Yellow/Dubbage

[Ory]

which in turn sounds similar to

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[Blackdown]

Full Tippa and Kismet interview.

 

[Benny Bunter]

^^^ Sorry, but the circle crew come across as quite charmless and dull to me.

If we're talking about pendulum-swings in the nuum, then I would have guessed the next thing after Funky would be moving away from house, not towards it. I don't think we'll see this until funky starts to peter out anyway, and that seems a while off yet. Its too early to call, but I seriously doubt this dubbage thing is the one.

edit: Don't like how they've named it themselves either. Aside from the fact that dubbage is a terrible name, it all seems a bit contrived, like they're trying too hard. Previous London dance music genres seem to have acquired their names in a much less contrived and more natural way. I know its just a name, but I think this is quite a significant and telling point.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Tippa: Just means it’s something that we brought to a new generation. This is what we push, what we fully believe in, what we want to create when making music but with our influence, and not influences from the states like most UK artist portray in their music. Because let’s be honest, a lot of deep house can be boring and shit, a large portion of it.

He's kidding himself here isn't he?

 

[Blackdown]

^^^ Sorry, but the circle crew come across as quite charmless and dull to me.

If we're talking about pendulum-swings in the nuum, then I would have guessed the next thing after Funky would be moving away from house, not towards it..

The elephant in the room here is grime.

if you move away from house, through uk funky and keep going you get grime (less groove > more drop/rewinds, less straight house beats > more ruff riddims, less hosts > more MCs, less house > more rap/dancehall influence, less niceness > more rudeness, less dressing up > more hats & hoods) and for this lot who saw it happen to uk garage, they dont want it to happen again.

so they're going the opposite way: over the last 2 years, there's been a whole wing of producers not trying to take uk funky ruder but trying to out-minimal each other. Wonder, Geeneus, Bossman/Perempay even Terror Danjah slyly are all making increasingly housier house. now i'm not saying it's entirely my thing but i can see the direction these guys are going in and when heads from this scene tell me they're playing at proper underground ghetto raves and it's the housey stuff that smashes it not UK funky, you know something's up.

this is probably baffling for a lot of heads on here who know all about minimal or regular house in a very different cultural context, but it's fairly new to much of their audience (hence big anthems can 'break' in this scene much later than in mainstream house). this is just the way things seem to be going.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The elephant in the room here is grime.

if you move away from house, through uk funky and keep going you get grime (less groove > more drop/rewinds, less straight house beats > more ruff riddims, less hosts > more MCs, less house > more rap/dancehall influence, less niceness > more rudeness, less dressing up > more hats & hoods) and for this lot who saw it happen to uk garage, they dont want it to happen again.

.

They're a very paranoid bunch then...

For me funky encompasses all these things right now, thats why its the best london scene since UK garage at its peak. Its a broad church whilst still retaining a distinct sound. Any given Marcus Nasty or Petchy set for example has a great mix of all of those yin/yang elements you list above. These DJs simply trump the Circle guys on every front. If funky seemed to be going too dark and aggy, or too poppy overall then I could see how that would upset the balance, but I don't think thats happening yet.

It seems the main bug bear the Circle lot have with funky is the old 'production values' chestnut, again a bit of a strawman. Surely the best-fit historical parallel to this would be jungle turning into intelligent dnb? Not sure I want to follow that path myself.

 

[Tentative Andy]

They're a very paranoid bunch then...

For me funky encompasses all these things right now, thats why its the best london scene since UK garage at its peak. Its a broad church whilst still retaining a distinct sound. Any given Marcus Nasty or Petchy set for example has a great mix of all of those yin/yang elements you list above. These DJs simply trump the Circle guys on every front. If funky seemed to be going too dark and aggy, or too poppy overall then I could see how that would upset the balance, but I don't think thats happening yet.

It seems the main bug bear the Circle lot have with funky is the old 'production values' chestnut, again a bit of a strawman.

Agree with all of this, unsurpirsingly.
I can see that what Martin is talking about is prob going on as a process, but tbh it's not a process that I'm particularly supportive of. As you say, their paranoia is making them rule out so many exciting musical elements as potential influences, that it's no wonder that people are wondering how can they develop, where can they go. They're backing themselves into a corner.
This doesn't mean that I might not like some of the music the Circle guys play, but it does mean that as things stands I'm not interested in championing them as some kind of movement, especially if this means pitting them 'against' funky in some way.

 

[Sectionfive]

Its abit like the Niche/speed garage debate isn't it ?

I caught Kismet last night and while the tunes where good for the most part, none of his set sounded like anything different from all the various things that are around now. So the jury will be out for a few months yet

We still haven't heard from anyone thats been to these night yet have we? so maybe its a 'vibe' kinda thing if ya know what I mean.

 

[benjybars]

We still haven't heard from anyone thats been to these night yet have we? so maybe its a 'vibe' kinda thing if ya know what I mean.

yeah. the nights are probably great if you're the kind of guy who can pull all the fit women that go there and then take them home to your penthouse and make love to them all night in your champagne-filled jacuzzi in canary wharf...

 

[Sectionfive]

Right, definitely not the music for me then...

 

[Blackdown]

yeah. the nights are probably great if you're the kind of guy who can pull all the fit women that go there and then take them home to your penthouse and make love to them all night in your champagne-filled jacuzzi in canary wharf...

yeah except when i go out i like to, y'know, have a break from the everyday routine...

 

[lazybrowndog]

"Its just deep house but from a younger generations prospectus. "

exactly

 

[Blackdown]

"Its just deep house but from a younger generations prospectus. "

exactly

so are half of the *ahem* post dubstep sounds right now... and what?

 

[outraygeous]

Blackdown,

I was thinking about your statement about this being the next big thing and initially i thought that was wrong but now I could see it happening.

The big scenes always come from where Londoners go out to party. No offence to people not from London but it seems that in these trendy east London places the general pubic don't reaaaaaally know whats going on.

Where as all the big scenes to emerge from London had a huge following of actual Londoners?

Kinda less about the music but its where you can go with people you know/in your circle.

 

[slackk]

If you believe in the concept of the 'nuum then it's quite apparent (from my perspective) that the rap scene is the real next step. Ex-grime MCs and up and coming kids, ex & current grime and funky producers, it's the music of choice for the youth coming up and the "older" generations don't like it.

It's the real progression.

 

[Tentative Andy]

^ Yeah I think you're right that people underestimate the importance of the road rap thing, it does seem like grime during its expanding stages in terms of the massive upswell of mcs and crews wanting to get involved, putting out hundreds of mixtapes, putting out hundreds of mixtapes and youtube vids etc.

I was going to write another great big talky bit but can't be bothered. I accpet the continuum theory pretty much completely, and I wish the Circle/dubbage guys the best of luck in developing their sound. Basically the only problem I have is that often in the rush to latch onto the 'next big think', all of the current good music being produced is forgotten and declared deadout. We've seen this move pulled on grime loads of times, going back to about 2006 probably, but it's still producing good music now, even if it's not too strong as a scene. Similarly I reckon funky and other 130-140 type sounds have the potential to run a good deal further in terms of producing new, innovative music - the fact that maybe less people are raving to them in London now is largely irrelevant to me at this stage.


Edit: that turned out to be quite long anyway, hah.

 

[benjybars]

If you believe in the concept of the 'nuum then it's quite apparent (from my perspective) that the rap scene is the real next step. Ex-grime MCs and up and coming kids, ex & current grime and funky producers, it's the music of choice for the youth coming up and the "older" generations don't like it.

It's the real progression.

road rap guys should jump on some dubbage beats... would love to see giggs clash tippa

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

*imagines giggs on a kismet set*

i dont think the 'nuum' really has much legs anymore. and i dont say that as anti-nuumist. the 'theory' does hold true, even if it is just a hifalutin way of saying something that should kinda be common sense to anyone paying attention to this music.

anyway, from everything thats going on right now, theres so many diff threads now, its hard to really say any of them are pointing the way forward more than the others. theyre all equally vital (relatively). and theyre all kinda intersecting on some level (for better or worse, def worse in some cases where i feel some styles/producers dont have much identity, theyre just absorbing everything). i mean, theres 8 bit grime, which crosses over to ikonika, which meets the oneman/bok bok type circles, and they all intersect with funky, and house, and then dubbage, and so on and so on.

god im just repeating 'the borders have fallen!' stuff from a year or so ago arent i, lol, but yeah, i think thats why its hard to really get a grip on whats the future, or what the next big thing is. i mean, uk mc-based music is here to stay now, thats for sure, but thats its own strand now surely. one that will likely just pick up on whatever is about and is more to do with MCs than any particular type of beats/production. the very nature of it being about mcs is that they can vocal pop, grime, dubstep, funky, whatever, but its still post-grime british mc-driven music.

 

[Slothrop]

I accpet the continuum theory pretty much completely, and I wish the Circle/dubbage guys the best of luck in developing their sound. Basically the only problem I have is that often in the rush to latch onto the 'next big think', all of the current good music being produced is forgotten and declared deadout.

Yeah, the continuum is still an identifiable thing and I wouldn't argue with that, but what's dodgy now is the amount of time invested in debating what its next mutation is going to be on the assumption that being the next stage of the hardcore continuum automatically means you're going to render all other dance music obsolete overnight. And yeah, the cart-before-the-horse thing of people rushing to rubbish everything that was still going on in grime and dubstep because it made for a more interesting article about funky if you could say that grime was dead in the water and dubstep was nothing but knuckle-dragging macho wobblers.

(Also the sense that there's been a gradual dissipation of energy from 93 onwards is something that Reynolds' analysis doesn't really approach. But that's something for another thread.)

 

[Corpsey]

This is partly the reason I'm enjoying listening to hip-hop at the moment, I think. I can't be arsed with the constant ''but is it original?''/''where is it going?'' voice in my head that accompanies listening to any new electronic music. I haven't got a clue about hip-hop anymore, so I just go for whatever sounds good to me.

I suppose thinking about music in that way is part of the reason Dissensus exists, so I won't complain about it too much. The greatest moments I've had listening to music have been when I haven't had a thought in my head, though. i.e. jumping around to Todd Edwards after about eight sambuca shots.