'Woke capitalism' in 2020

shakahislop

Well-known member
Typed too much here but let's be honest, woke commentary/distaste is where the money is now

Its fucking weird all this. And really dull as well

a lot of words have probably been spilt on the subject already on here, but i come back again and again to thinking how unpredictable and unexpected a twist in culture wokeness has been. i think overall its a pretty positive thing, all things considered, but i don't think anyone predicted the swing from the licentiousness of the 90s to authoritarian morality being a powerful youth culture. i'm struck by how much of the rebellion is directed against the mores of people 10 years old rather than those of people 30 years older as well. it's a truly surprising eruption, a new configuration of elements.

the other noticeable thing is that it's happened without a new form of music which is a bit unusual for something which is (very broadly) a youth subculture.

like punk or the 60s hippy thing or jungle / raves or whatever, its going to be interesting to see what parts of it get coopted into the mainstream in the future
 
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version

Well-known member
like punk or the 60s hippy thing or jungle / raves or whatever, its going to be interesting to see what parts of it get coopted into the mainstream in the future

Has that not already happened? We were just discussing people arguing in favour of an arms manufacturer being progressive on the previous page. Surely it's been well and truly co opted at this point?
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
A company like Lockheed or Raytheon can do the same things it always has as long as it tweaks its presentation and a decent chunk of the left and centre will praise its progressiveness, the right will have something to rail against and the media will have a 'hot button issue' to bang on about, meanwhile the business itself is unchanged and the arms industry keeps chugging along.
The centre, maybe - but I'd be very surprised if anyone who's in any serious way left-wing would praise a major arms company, whatever their hiring policy.
 

Leo

Well-known member
isn't the left's advocacy journalism also a reaction to the same thing happening from the right that proceeded it? Fox News was on it's own for a number of years with hosts and reporting that blatantly advocated for conservative social issues and causes before we eventually got the equivalent on the left with HuffPo, MSNBC, etc. The NY Times has always leaned left, but they were less so 10-20 years ago.
 
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Leo

Well-known member
The class background, social circles and general environment of journalists inevitably plays a part too.

It's unsurprising that people writing for The Guardian or NYT would find social issues much more pressing than economics as that's likely where most of the political conflict and friction in their lives comes from.

this is important. journalism pays shit (relatively speaking), so many of the people who can afford to do it for a living are from more privileged backgrounds, with their multiple college degrees.
 

version

Well-known member
isn't the left's advocacy journalism also a reaction to the same thing happening from the right that proceeded it? Fox News was on it's own for a number of years with hosts and reporting that blatantly advocated for conservative social issues and causes before we eventually got the equivalent on the left with HuffPo, MSNBC, etc. The NY Times has always leaned left, but they were less so 10-20 years ago.

Yeah, sounds about right. You had the talk radio stuff like Limbaugh for decades too.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
isn't the left's advocacy journalism also a reaction to the same thing happening from the right that proceeded it? Fox News was on it's own for a number of years with hosts and reporting that blatantly advocated for conservative social issues and causes before we eventually got the equivalent on the left with HuffPo, MSNBC, etc. The NY Times has always leaned left, but they were less so 10-20 years ago.
Yeah, that's just what I was saying. The left is fighting with one hand behind its back if's not going to engage the right on its own terms.

Unfortunately, that means simply making shit up, because that's what right-wing politicians and journalists do on the regular. So the left has a choice between just going with the flow and losing any sort of moral high ground with regard to honesty, or sticking to principles and being at a disadvantage.
 

Leo

Well-known member
it's more than that too: the greater focus on "woke" topics and advocacy in place of straight news coverage.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Yeah, that's just what I was saying. The left is fighting with one hand behind its back if's not going to engage the right on its own terms.

Unfortunately, that means simply making shit up, because that's what right-wing politicians and journalists do on the regular. So the left has a choice between just going with the flow and losing any sort of moral high ground with regard to honesty, or sticking to principles and being at a disadvantage.
A principled left?! 😂
 

version

Well-known member
I think with the 'making things up' argument. Everyone does. The right are much more brazen about it and seem to have embraced it as an explicit tactic, but there's a lot of bullshit coming from the liberal media, the Labour party, the Democrats etc. too.

The larger issue, at least for me, is whether it's constructive in the long term to adopt the approach.

Mick Lynch cuts through because he comes across as direct and honest, also, because he knows what he's arguing, he can't be as easily caught out and dragged into stupid spats. He can just state his position and stick to it while others tie themselves in knots, feign outrage etc.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
I think with the 'making things up' argument. Everyone does. The right are much more brazen about it and seem to have embraced it as an explicit tactic, but there's a lot of bullshit coming from the liberal media, the Labour party, the Democrats etc. too.

The larger issue, at least for me, is whether it's constructive in the long term to adopt the approach.

Mick Lynch cuts through because he comes across as direct and honest, also, because he knows what he's arguing, he can't be as easily caught out and dragged into stupid spats. He can just state his position and stick to it while others tie themselves in knots, feign outrage etc.
Everyone does it, sure, but it seems to be benefiting the right (and especially the far right) much more than it benefits either liberals or socialists.
 

version

Well-known member
Everyone does it, sure, but it seems to be benefiting the right (and especially the far right) much more than it benefits either liberals or socialists.

I reckon that's at least partly down to the right currently being dominated by free market types who want to tear down the state.

They're a wrecking ball for private interests.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
This complete assault on truth.. well, I say assault on truth, but the assault happened a long time ago, and it was a successful assault that defeated and then totally destroyed truth so that there was nothing of it left and even to talk about it seems like a quaint and old-fashioned idea.

Both the concept, in that if someone said "I am determined to discover the truth" everyone hearing would think "You what?" and also the practical applications, in the way that people are completely happy to just insist that what they want to have happened is what happened regardless of whether there is completely overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A whole world full of Coomical Alis turns out to be really fucking unfunny.

And it's not coming back, it hasn't been badly injured and retreated to lick its wounds or anything like that, it's been defeated and then the victors have slaughtered every single part of it. Imagine a mafia film.... or the Northman or whatever when the victors defeat the army and the king and kill them all but one tiny child escapes and the invaders search desperately cos they know that narrative demands that if that child survives he will grow up and become powerful and seek his revenge and however unlikely it seems he will somehow become so strong that he will come back and get them all. Well, this is a bit like that but this time you gotta imagine all the soldiers desperately searching going "Sorry sire (or boss), we can't find him anywhere" and then one of them is like "Oh wait up here he is under the bed" and then they pull out this helpless little child and so relived and so evil that they brutally hack him apart into tiny little pieces in the most insane bloodthirsty act of overkill so that he is so dead, more dead than anything you've ever seen before and there is no revenge or comeback or anything. And that's the end of the film, evil is utterly victorious, end of story, done and dusted. Forget truth it can't save us now.
 

WashYourHands

Cat Malogen
Seems every other advert now has certain prerequisites

a) a light, slightly flouncy mandolin jingle, Ocado is among the worst because there’s an Ocado just for you!

b) adhd editing

c) age old bs/lies of product/service as an actual human experience, yeah right

d) increased tokenisation of mixed race heterosexual couples and mixed race kids, like that helps fuck all

e) increased tokenisation of same sex couples, again like that actually changes anything beyond corporate optics

f) people piling around like Covid doesn’t exist, eg no advertisers using masks in their imagery pool, “bad optics”

g) some techno-futuristic fluorescent lighting ie very bright red, greens, yellow, white, bright pink - The Lord of Light is Lucifer

h) E McGregor’s travel company appearance war crime, “you’ve got the whole wide world”. No. No you fuckin don’t because your flight has been overbooked to the sum of 4x actual plane capacity

I) yesterday I was privy to a 20 stone bubble-gutted Ian Botham boomer flogging foot spas to the daytime shopper cohort of old dears to alleviate “a bit of mild, lower-leg pain”. Lose some weight then you cunt. Fuck’s sake, have a word, you’re supposed to be a legend

So many problems, so few practical solutions
 
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