By elections always have a smaller turnout though. This one was relatively large, 47% or so.
Tory bastards
- Thread starter crackerjack
- Start date
They do, yes, but the point is that according to the liberal understanding of /majority/, they shouldn't. Most people simply don't know byelections take place on given days.
I ground democracy historically so for me it exists as a certain way of government relatively to how we live, and not an ideal or a metaphysical principle. I'm not an anti-democrat in the old classical hierarchical sense, I just don't think democracy is a useful way of understanding whats going on. So to answer your question, I'm not the person to endorse democracy, but yes, if the liberals could back up their claims of the importance of democracy with high turn out claims that would be an endorsement that the process is at least still valid. But I don't think that is what is going on. Democratic process itself is disintegrating precisely in the lesser authoritarian, more liberal countries.
another way to put this is that the classical labour movement was the mechanism by which democratic processes could still be upheld to varying degrees. As soon as that was smashed during the 1970s, politics reverted to what it always is, a bureaucratic sector that bloats the state for the continued rule of capitalist social relations.
People forget this. That low turn outs do signify class dissatisfaction, but without leading anywhere. We are more fucked than people think. I'm not an optimist whatsoever.
People forget this. That low turn outs do signify class dissatisfaction, but without leading anywhere. We are more fucked than people think. I'm not an optimist whatsoever.
I don't know - to track that back you'd have to show a pattern of falling voter turnout, since say WW2 to now. And I don't know if that's true. When people are exercised about something turnout seems to go up - weren't the recent US elections have relatively high turnout? Support for and revulsion for Trump driving it higher than usual?
Though it's certainly not hitting anything like 80% participation....
Though it's certainly not hitting anything like 80% participation....
But that's the thing. Turnout does not stay at a relative constant, there are counter-acting tendancies, but I think we can all agree that the media did heavily push an anti-trump agenda (I think Trump is vile but so is sleepy Joe.) A lot of it was democratic jockying. Otherwise some of the misplaced hopes re: racialised policing that people accused Trump of were self-fantasies for people who no longer have social bases to rally. And on a tangential, but foreign policy note, as you are well aware, Obama's actions in Syria came too little too late, and ended up entrenching Assad even further. So the isolated figurehead or president is auxiliary to the machine.
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Of course. But the problem is the 2020 elections came right after the George Floyd protests, so there was that element (I hate to say this but its true) that the professional chattering classes and literati could capitalise on.
there's also the fact that the likes of Mike Pence low key wanted Trump out. Some analysts at the time realised that if Trump were to remain the foremost republican candidate, they would get slaughtered in the 2022 by yearlys. I think this perspective is going to hold. I feel like Joe Biden will ultimately serve as damage control for the republicans.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Is Clappedout a Tory? I bet he is? Anyway, I'm sure we are all pleased to see that he has successfully sued some thieving German woman who was selling a bootleg CD of his on ebay. Luckily he left the deputy alive to go and collect the two and a half grand she has to cough up - that will teach her that crime doesn't pay eh!
www.theguardian.com
Eric Clapton wins legal case against woman selling bootleg live CD for £8.45
Rock star wins case against German woman who says her late husband bought the disc at a popular department store in the 80s
www.theguardian.com
Is Clappedout a Tory? I bet he is? Anyway, I'm sure we are all pleased to see that he has successfully sued some thieving German woman who was selling a bootleg CD of his on ebay. Luckily he left the deputy alive to go and collect the two and a half grand she has to cough up - that will teach her that crime doesn't pay eh!
Eric Clapton wins legal case against woman selling bootleg live CD for £8.45
Rock star wins case against German woman who says her late husband bought the disc at a popular department store in the 80s
I like Christgau's opinion on clapptron.
this is the best post-60s guitarist. invented punk and death metal in 1970 and far surpassed them.
en.wikipedia.org
Masayuki Takayanagi - Wikipedia
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think you're picking the wrong fight here a bit, third, since I'm not arguing for any kind of exceptionalism, nor am I saying that everyone who didn't vote blue two years ago must be a lovely progressive with the correct pro-refugee attitude. My point was that "Let them drown" is clearly not a majority view, which is the sort of belief I've encountered in some narcissists who believe that they are the exception.1) It has nothing to do with bigotry but all to do with pride, us Turks and Kurds can be more bigoted than most Brits in general. What people think or say means relatively little, its more how they act. What I'm saying is precisely this, own your bigotry because that's not where the problem starts, but the refusal to admit you're no different to everyone else. Liberalism and democracy doesn't give you the moral high ground.
2) You've just picked this out of the hat arbitrarily to uphold that very hubris I was criticising, rather than address my main point, in that anti-toryism does not equate to pro-refugee.
3) if we look at the statistics, we get a far less rosy picture, and that the culture war is essentially much ado about nothing. Which, again, pride above knowledge.
Asylum in the UK: the key numbers
Here are the key statistics about the UK’s asylum system in context
If the political establishment can create a culture war out of this, then there is a very deep pathology in the British psyche which allows them to get away with it.
And I was talking only about public attitudes, so Home Office figures, as grim as they may be, aren't the issue here.