is saying "i'm into world music" a good enough reason for me to dislike someone
- Thread starter stelfox
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droid
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john eden said:
Hmm.. more accurate I agree, but not too useful for organisational purposes, or conciseness.
Again - this is a case of definitions, but theres plenty of European (and Amercian) folk music in my 'world' collection...
Pretty silly alright.
Intresting stuff there. I pretty much agree with him about most of it, and i guess my definition of 'world' music is a lot narrower than the average record shops...
haha yeh i didnt have uch say in choosing my name, it got stuck on my birth certificate
that mr lunch thing is fucked up, is that a joke?!?!
i dont think its necessarily difficult for organisational purposes to distinguish by country or even by a larger regional area, 'world music". why is it acceptable to have 10 different sections of house and techno all european say, and then not to at least give another country its own section?
that mr lunch thing is fucked up, is that a joke?!?!
i dont think its necessarily difficult for organisational purposes to distinguish by country or even by a larger regional area, 'world music". why is it acceptable to have 10 different sections of house and techno all european say, and then not to at least give another country its own section?
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
BTW I'd say something about
wholegrain elitist, paternalistic anti-pop position
on the "is pop the work of the devil (yes it is and don't you dare talk back)" thread up the way, but I don't want to get bullied by the older kids.
wholegrain elitist, paternalistic anti-pop position
on the "is pop the work of the devil (yes it is and don't you dare talk back)" thread up the way, but I don't want to get bullied by the older kids.
well, i'm a big fan of pop and hope never to stop being one, so i'm not even going near that thread. however, i take the view that many kinds of pop function extremely well as folk music, too, and vice versa (and that's without even going into the avant side of the equation). however, i don't reckon that yr typical froots-reading, real-world-record-collecting, fair-trade-mung-bean-buying, suv-driving type recognises this complimentary duality, that's my problem. but hell, i've decided it's not reason enough to actively dislike anyone, anyway. there are far more important things to worry about than what some people (including me) might consider the right and wrong ways to listen to music.
Ho hum is all I can say to this. Didn't people ridicule this 'world music' Putumayo supported stereotype years ago.
I've gotten linked by editors to the subgroup 'world music writers' because I've written about salsa, konpa, Congolese rumba, soca, dancehall and other non-Anglo styles, and I don't let it bother me much. In a music critic world dominated by coverage of Anglo rockers, I'm happy to give a little attention to others(and I like my share of Anglo rockers also), and my anger is more reserved for those editors who, despite years of 'world music' marketing, political correctness, 'diversity and multiculturalism', still make little effort to cover anything but rock music.
I've gotten linked by editors to the subgroup 'world music writers' because I've written about salsa, konpa, Congolese rumba, soca, dancehall and other non-Anglo styles, and I don't let it bother me much. In a music critic world dominated by coverage of Anglo rockers, I'm happy to give a little attention to others(and I like my share of Anglo rockers also), and my anger is more reserved for those editors who, despite years of 'world music' marketing, political correctness, 'diversity and multiculturalism', still make little effort to cover anything but rock music.
Yes dumb movies and dumb music can come from anywhere, and no one should act superior because they like international artists, but no one should be simplistically labeled or dismissed because they like something that isn't in every theatre or every major store for sale everywhere.
well, that's the thing, steve. i'm in pretty much the same boat as far as the categorisation by editors (although my experience would suggest that i'm thought of as a "weirdo" rather than a "world music writer" - this may or may not be right, depending on your own opinion). it's just that when i end up discussing music with a lot of other "world music" fans, writers, etc i often find myself questioning their motivation.
i can't get over the fact that there's a lot of clueless and completely contradictory snobbery re music sung in english and patois etc within this group. the more i consider it, though, the more i think this lands squarely on that old, somewhat tired battleground of "taste" - like in some quarters there appears to be an idea that shaabi, bhangra, zouk etc are somehow more "cultured" than ragga, grime, street rap etc, when for my money, they come from exactly the same place, give or take geography.
it's a weird one, although i am finding it quite useful in getting people to listen to reggaeton. the same people who slam ragga (sometimes justifiably) for its slackness etc seem not to mind reggaeton and baile funk so much and i think this comes down to two things 1) lack of cultural proximlty i.e. it's "exotic" coz it's in another language and not heard on every street corner (i'm talking abt the uk here, which is interesting enough in itself because this point absolutely doesn't apply in the states, where reggaeton enjoys almost total ubiquity now) and 2) abject lack of understanding! even the most basic grasp of colloquial spanish (and mine is very basic, my portuguese even more so) reveals that reggaeton and baile funk can claim very little moral high ground!
it's also about the equally tired bugbear of "realness" insofaras i know people who claim to be fans of indian music, especially bhangra, but really dislike people like zeus, rdb, tigerstyle et al because they see their work as diluted, cheesy etc. the same goes for the person who said he liked some reggaeton, but preferred the stuff that sounded like "proper" salsa! anyway, as i say, this is based on specific experiences on my part and not a reductive hypothesis. however, i definitely overdid it with the stereotypes earlier, though, and it hasn't helped the argument at all!
i can't get over the fact that there's a lot of clueless and completely contradictory snobbery re music sung in english and patois etc within this group. the more i consider it, though, the more i think this lands squarely on that old, somewhat tired battleground of "taste" - like in some quarters there appears to be an idea that shaabi, bhangra, zouk etc are somehow more "cultured" than ragga, grime, street rap etc, when for my money, they come from exactly the same place, give or take geography.
it's a weird one, although i am finding it quite useful in getting people to listen to reggaeton. the same people who slam ragga (sometimes justifiably) for its slackness etc seem not to mind reggaeton and baile funk so much and i think this comes down to two things 1) lack of cultural proximlty i.e. it's "exotic" coz it's in another language and not heard on every street corner (i'm talking abt the uk here, which is interesting enough in itself because this point absolutely doesn't apply in the states, where reggaeton enjoys almost total ubiquity now) and 2) abject lack of understanding! even the most basic grasp of colloquial spanish (and mine is very basic, my portuguese even more so) reveals that reggaeton and baile funk can claim very little moral high ground!
it's also about the equally tired bugbear of "realness" insofaras i know people who claim to be fans of indian music, especially bhangra, but really dislike people like zeus, rdb, tigerstyle et al because they see their work as diluted, cheesy etc. the same goes for the person who said he liked some reggaeton, but preferred the stuff that sounded like "proper" salsa! anyway, as i say, this is based on specific experiences on my part and not a reductive hypothesis. however, i definitely overdid it with the stereotypes earlier, though, and it hasn't helped the argument at all!
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seahorsegenius
It's just me.
yes it is.
I think there are more important things to worry about than popists, or 'world music' enthusiasts who are uh, afraid of pop(or should I say programmed beats). Stelfox, I know what you mean about folks who embrace roots reggae but snear at all dancehall, or who embrace salsa but snear at all reggaeton. With many folks I understand the thinking that just wants to make you disklike them, but on the other hand I know some people who are very knowledgeable about roots reggae or salsa, and who dislike dancehall and reggaeton respectively, and I can't as easily dismiss their criticisms of the more current genres. But ultimately, I just want to see more coverage in newspaper and magazines of any of the of above though, rather than more articles about anglo-rock. With more coverage by genre specialists, perhaps we'd see less of the overly simplistic "I'm into world music" stuff.
Rudy Meixell
Member
Why would you automatically assume that someone who likes salsa would like reggaeton or that someone who likes roots reggae would automatically like dancehall, to begin with? To me that sounds like a lumping together of styles of music that don't share similar aesthetics. Kind of like asking why someone who likes Motown wouldn't also like Detroit techno.
Rudy Meixell
Member
Also, for those of us who are mostly not thrilled with entirely electronic music (and I include myself in that group), "world music" (a term I don't like either) provides a lot of alternatives for those of us with reactionary (another term I don't like in this context) taste in music. If I want to hear Khaled in less of a slick pop-oriented context than the new album (based on what I've heard of it), something like Enzo Avitabile's Save the World is a pretty nice option.
Rudy Meixell
Member
Okay, forget the analogy. (At least when it comes to dancehall. I have read that dancehall at least partly grew out of mento--I hope I have that right--a religious/folkloric genre that hadn't really fed into reggae, but I don't know too much about this, so I'm not going to try to argue that point.) Regardless, when I first started hearing dancehall, it sounded and felt really different to me than roots reggae/dub did. I never really clicked with it. I was still a teen at the time I first heard it, and it's not as though I wasn't listening to other things with a programmed beat. (And I was later to get into hip-hop for a while.)
Some people don't like music that is rhythm-based and reliant on programmed beats. I don't happen to be one of them. Some 'world music' fans are that way, and while some fit Stelfox's annoying stereotype, others don't. It's also interesting that on another thread that Woebot is expressing surprise at people who are embracing 'weird folk' and he's trying to link it to electronica partisans, when it's likely just people in seek of melody-oriented material(no matter how drab the melodies may be, and no matter that electronic beat-oriented musics can have hooks as well). At a recent soul/oldies show I was at, members of the Dramatics were mocking rap. I'm not endorsing that attitude, but I think supporters of beat-oriented music have to deal with that response.
As much as I enjoy Jace DJ Rupture Clayton's blog which includes lots of international music, I was a bit annoyed once when in praising Youssou N'Dour, he seemed to offer a backhanded compliment about how Yousou's latest was great despite it not being beat-oriented (I'm paraphrasing by memory and may not have that exactly right). Chuck Eddy also dismisses much afropop as National Public Radio/Public tv/middlebrow music. I think there are participants in both afropop and african rap who have something to offer that I value (no matter who makes up their audience demographics).
As much as I enjoy Jace DJ Rupture Clayton's blog which includes lots of international music, I was a bit annoyed once when in praising Youssou N'Dour, he seemed to offer a backhanded compliment about how Yousou's latest was great despite it not being beat-oriented (I'm paraphrasing by memory and may not have that exactly right). Chuck Eddy also dismisses much afropop as National Public Radio/Public tv/middlebrow music. I think there are participants in both afropop and african rap who have something to offer that I value (no matter who makes up their audience demographics).
redcrescent
Well-known member
Dunno, there's great stuff in all of these, and I wouldn't want to be without any of it.Rudy Meixell said:
Is this meant to be as funny as it reads?
No offense, but you're right, you don't know too much about this.
Rudy Meixell
Member
redcrescent said:
Sure, I can understand someone feeling that way. I just don't think that it should be surprising or somehow automatically suspect for someone to like salsa and not like reggaeton, or to like roots reggae and not like dancehall. (Reggaeton is definitely growing on me, anyway, but yes, I prefer it to sound distinctively Latin in some way (beyond being in Spanish), which shouldn't come as a big surprise from someone who is a salsa fan.)
redcrescent said:
I really don't, it's true. Maybe I will search the archives. Not sure I'm interested enough in the subject to read a book about it.
Stelfox, on ILM you complain about how rude people are to you, and then you praise Dissensus for being civil. Now here you're pulling a snotty, haughty move with your last comment. Not that you care, but I enjoy reading you enthusing about dancehall cuts and other things you like, more then your dismissive comments about folks who don't meet your standards.
I'm going to see Haitian band Djakout Mizik over the weekend. Perhaps they'll prove more interesting than disecting which music enthusiast is cooler than another.
I'm going to see Haitian band Djakout Mizik over the weekend. Perhaps they'll prove more interesting than disecting which music enthusiast is cooler than another.