Russia Surrounded
- Thread starter Woebot
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- craner boobs disco dasha nekrasova good old obsessive antiamericanism gullfire over leningrad j. h. prynne jamaican voodoo gang from predator 2 my indian mate in year 11 with downs syndrome oliver ukrainer sanctuary of apollo shaka's secret mission snake island the black sea the good old party spirit of desert storm the russo-ucranerian war wagner man falling out of the sky we're all neocons now whatabouastic whataboutery whataboutish whataboutism whataboutistic who controls the serpent
craner
Beast of Burden
What, have you read it?
Yes.
I've read some of their stuff before, but no.
He's such a twat.
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
IdleRich
IdleRich
He did himself no favours by coming up with possibly the worst possible title ever. Well, it's a good title in that it's catchy and punchy and all that, easy to remember and so stridently confident that it seems wrong to call it a prediction, more a simple statement of facts, albeit ones that admittedly hadn't yet happened at the time of writing. A pronouncement on how things will be.
But the problem with that title was, it was utterly wrong. And there is no way out for him, he can't say "oh it was a bit more nuanced than that, actually it meant..." cos as soon as you're fiddling around like that you've already lost, it's a bit like people trying to debate Trump with facts and convoluted arguments and not realising that they had already lost cos he'd called them Fat Fred or something.
But here Fukuyama is being blasted off the battlefield by his own bombast. An irony there... it's definitely the, er, end of his story.
craner
Beast of Burden
It's a brilliant title.
Also, the book is brilliant and it is much more nuanced.
Also, far from being blasted off the battlefield by his own bombast, Fukuyama has written a string of classics since.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I'm not sure if it was clear from what I said there but I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I've just become particularly struck by this (relatively recent?) phenomenon of how there is now no place for nuance in public debate. People win arguments by just steamrolling the other guy, not by being right and it's very sad... as soon as someone is in the position of saying "Well actually it's not quite like that because... " then they are already being beaten by someone going "It is called The End of History. End of."
And there is an irony surely in the sheer effectiveness of his title leading to it becoming a stick which anyone can pick up and beat the crap out of him with.
And there is an irony surely in the sheer effectiveness of his title leading to it becoming a stick which anyone can pick up and beat the crap out of him with.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
How dare you say that about a valued member of the for.. actually, it's fine, carry on.
craner
Beast of Burden
OK, sorry, I missed that.
It’s a book that has aged much better than people give it credit for, though, and that’s the last thing I’ll say on that.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I can well believe that, just observing that the title will haunt him even so. Just the other day discussing Ukraine and FF came up and people laughed and dismissed him without even considering his point or argument.
Edit; obviously I'm sure he'll be really hurt to hear how low he ranks in the backseat of Lisbon taxis...
Edit; obviously I'm sure he'll be really hurt to hear how low he ranks in the backseat of Lisbon taxis...
This account is excellent, a sequence of coruscating threads on Russia's plight and recent history. The barons may be about to turn on the courtiers, as they did in the 90s.