Culture As Advertising.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
the bloke who gave you the dmt? what did he do to you?
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
i meant more as a listener with the motherly-fatherly axis.
whether your mizormac or kesha, you're going to have older men exploit you as a young, impressionable age to do things that aren't in your best interests.
but the spice girls are going to give you something that everyone can have regardless of their upbringing whereas jungle is a guiding force and defines your identity.
whether your mizormac or kesha, you're going to have older men exploit you as a young, impressionable age to do things that aren't in your best interests.
but the spice girls are going to give you something that everyone can have regardless of their upbringing whereas jungle is a guiding force and defines your identity.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Corpsey 01:43 PM Replying to Thread
Culture As Advertising.
i was looking forward to that
Culture As Advertising.
i was looking forward to that
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
some useful interventions:
crowley: enjoys to both hyper-glossy, fashion industry k-pop and obscure, hyper-localised rap nobody's ever heard before. he spans the spectrum of this thread more than any of us and as such would be best suited to explain the emotional and aesthetic differences between the two.
droid: has profoundly emotional reactions to david bowie, a man who very explicitly disingenuous and marketing-savy. it would be revealing to hear about that. likewise of course is how ambient music is used in commercial contexts.
thirdform: he has a-near physiological aversion to music that could ever, at any point be coopted. he could explain that.
corpsey: you are to large extents the antithesis of thirdform. you could explain the phenomenology of your experience.
oliver craner: caricatured as aesthetic of vogue magazine.
pattycakes: lives in the trees, nestles with parrots and lives on a diet of coconuts and bark. this world is the opposite of his own.
crowley: enjoys to both hyper-glossy, fashion industry k-pop and obscure, hyper-localised rap nobody's ever heard before. he spans the spectrum of this thread more than any of us and as such would be best suited to explain the emotional and aesthetic differences between the two.
droid: has profoundly emotional reactions to david bowie, a man who very explicitly disingenuous and marketing-savy. it would be revealing to hear about that. likewise of course is how ambient music is used in commercial contexts.
thirdform: he has a-near physiological aversion to music that could ever, at any point be coopted. he could explain that.
corpsey: you are to large extents the antithesis of thirdform. you could explain the phenomenology of your experience.
oliver craner: caricatured as aesthetic of vogue magazine.
pattycakes: lives in the trees, nestles with parrots and lives on a diet of coconuts and bark. this world is the opposite of his own.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
conspiracy theorists have a fixation of gender-subversion as being the workings of the new world order. trans-genderism as some sort of preparation for cloning.
from that kind of perspective you could make the case that androgyny encourages men to spend more money; buying clothes and makeup they otherwise wouldn't. it correlates with the fact that pop produces more androgynous artists than the underground does.
from that kind of perspective you could make the case that androgyny encourages men to spend more money; buying clothes and makeup they otherwise wouldn't. it correlates with the fact that pop produces more androgynous artists than the underground does.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
when i first coined the phrase 'psychedelic materialism' on the dematerialisation thread i said it was pantheistic; it was the realisation of the ego in the outside world. 'that car, that bum, this jewellery are all literally me and my accomplishments'.
this is a perfect example of that. immediately the instrumental is epic and panoramic. a silhouette of a ronin against and oriental sunset surveying future conquests from a hilltop.
in the opening line he says "take your eye off of me"; this is not about him, it's scope is expansive.
"drink street vybz, so she high off of me"; he's not just selling his brand of rum, they'll be intoxicated by him. products become extensions of himself (same with trump logos).
"the gyal them say me are them ice cream". similar thing
the melody of that second verse is harrowing. you can't deny that this is highly emotional music, despite it's purpose to sell his booze.
capitalist realism isn't something to be rejected, but embraced.
I think it's more that I've heard it all before. How is the chassy of Carly Rae Jepsen call me maybe any different to eurotrance? it isn't. it's hopelessly out of date. It's an exercise in reduction to the point where the essence becomes less minimalism but a literal reduction of possibilities. Otherwise I'm into quite a bit of rubbery, glossy 80s electro soul, which was certainly commercial and co-opted (which genre isn't? 92 hardcore techno and midwest drop bass acid...) but otherwise...
There is a very real danger of acting in such a way that instead of the assembly line being sonified, we humanise it. and that is basically strength through joy, essentially.
As for capitalist realism. I don't really care much for it as the cellular commodity subjects everything, even our toiletries and defecation to its logic.
But I am sympathetic to the argument that we must accept capitalist realism. but so what? it's like playboy magazine. what's the point? eventually that acceptance brings back to step one where all your neurons are maxed out.
But I am sympathetic to the argument that we must accept capitalist realism. but so what? it's like playboy magazine. what's the point? eventually that acceptance brings back to step one where all your neurons are maxed out.
But my position is as far away from vigilant citizen.
My position is that the curator connoisseur elite was a victim of its own success.. It actually killed pop music as something that could have outside possibilities folded into it. Being into New Order in the 80s or the sex pistols in the 70s (for they were ultimately pop music and were intended to be so) meant something. Being into Migos in 2019 means absolutely nothing. the right wing deconstructionists have achieved a pyrrhic victory. everything is relative now. you can read anything into anything and extract from its condensation within a very specific set of time sequences (hence mind control and illuminati to conspiratorially frame what happens in literally every single industry.) It is essentialy the murder of the dead of dead crystalised historical labour. It isn't really capitalist realism, there are certainly alternatives that can be read through music, but it is literally capitalism sonified. revolution itself has even been rendered as an integral part of capitals stabilisation.
So actually I'd be more tempted to agree with Luke on the predatory nature of it.
Look at the pitchfork and RA writers trying desperately to big up their experimental club mates like Holly Herndon and her man matt dryhurst's rant about how algorithms are killing everything, all to cover for the fact that without these personalities in the industry noone's gonna pay their rent as the logical place for experimental music today is tiny mix tapes, itself targeted for a very specific audience.
My position is that the curator connoisseur elite was a victim of its own success.. It actually killed pop music as something that could have outside possibilities folded into it. Being into New Order in the 80s or the sex pistols in the 70s (for they were ultimately pop music and were intended to be so) meant something. Being into Migos in 2019 means absolutely nothing. the right wing deconstructionists have achieved a pyrrhic victory. everything is relative now. you can read anything into anything and extract from its condensation within a very specific set of time sequences (hence mind control and illuminati to conspiratorially frame what happens in literally every single industry.) It is essentialy the murder of the dead of dead crystalised historical labour. It isn't really capitalist realism, there are certainly alternatives that can be read through music, but it is literally capitalism sonified. revolution itself has even been rendered as an integral part of capitals stabilisation.
So actually I'd be more tempted to agree with Luke on the predatory nature of it.
Look at the pitchfork and RA writers trying desperately to big up their experimental club mates like Holly Herndon and her man matt dryhurst's rant about how algorithms are killing everything, all to cover for the fact that without these personalities in the industry noone's gonna pay their rent as the logical place for experimental music today is tiny mix tapes, itself targeted for a very specific audience.
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Conversely the most popular form of dance music in the 90s was handbag-progressive-discohouse. It's quite interesting that there has been no real treatment of it, yet the beatles have been bled dry when that was for the most part a white cannonical thing.
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I am actually a hyper-modernist, I just like to engage modernism in relation to its others. However I utterly reject traditionalism as the very category of traditional is a modernist construct, just like anti-enlightenment is a modernist construct. I'm not anti-traditionalist, I think it's a non problem because it doesn't exist.
People in the 17th century wouldn't have thought of their music as *traditional*, yes, they would have thought of it having a genealogical tradition, but so do poptimists.
Aka. When God is concretised and personalised rather than being ontological totality it is a form of class rule and little else. God is not an it or a him, God is being, and in this sense it makes sense for some ruling class dunderheads to castigate the proletarians of sexual deviancy and lack of religious conservatism. because what they want is god the father, and not the body of christ or the realisation of fana on a global level.
ignore the last sentence of this review though:
"This album is incredible - a highly complex but beautifully fluid traversal of Iranian folk music and modular synthesis that reminds us of Dariush Dolat-Shahi’s unparalleled ‘Electronic Music, Tar and Sehtar’ with its fantastically creative sense of freedom and abstract expression, pulling us deep into uncanny valleys of hyper modernism bursting with ideas and a sense of disrupted harmony that’s hard to absorb in one sitting. One of the most original, multi-layered things we’ve heard this year - a huge recommendation.
Ata Ebtekar’s restlessly searching sound has been in action for 30 years now and first appeared on our radar two decades ago with his debut 12” for Warp. Over the years he’s released on half a dozen labels - with Morphine, Sub Rosa and Opal Tapes among them - but this latest work for Diagonal has hit us like no other. On ‘Parallel Persia’, Ebtekar finds a poetic way of uniting his sounds into a brilliant aural energy that absorbs centuries of tradition before feeding into a new dimension of musical exploration.
Triggering a series of beguiling chain reactions that resonate throughout each track with electronic frequencies modulating the acoustic and vice-versa, Sote gradually re-sets templates to take us through a wormhole into an alternate reality, the Parallel Persia of the title. On the opening ‘Modality Transporter’, traditional Tar and Santur lay bare, unbothered by synthesis - but by the end of the track they become gradually transformed into ribboning tendrils of extruded electronics that continue to morph in fascinating ways. On ‘Brass Tacks’ they’re joined by unearthly, treated voices, before being pulled into bittersweet taffy on ‘Atomic Hypocrisy’, and utterly upending our proprioceptions in ‘Trans Force’, and the ancient-futuristic chants and dance rhythms recalling Rashad Becker in ‘Pipe Dreams’, until the whole thing ends in a purely singular language of unique intonation and shatterproof, beatless rhythms on ‘Pseudo Scholastic’.
‘Parallel Persia’ explores a subtle, gradual transformation into the unknown that’s both dizzying and inspirational, a reminder that pushing boundaries and templates works best when those boundaries are fully appreciated and understood. Innovation often births chaos and disruption, but beauty and symmetry, ultimately, prevail."
https://boomkat.com/products/parallel-persia
People in the 17th century wouldn't have thought of their music as *traditional*, yes, they would have thought of it having a genealogical tradition, but so do poptimists.
Aka. When God is concretised and personalised rather than being ontological totality it is a form of class rule and little else. God is not an it or a him, God is being, and in this sense it makes sense for some ruling class dunderheads to castigate the proletarians of sexual deviancy and lack of religious conservatism. because what they want is god the father, and not the body of christ or the realisation of fana on a global level.
ignore the last sentence of this review though:
"This album is incredible - a highly complex but beautifully fluid traversal of Iranian folk music and modular synthesis that reminds us of Dariush Dolat-Shahi’s unparalleled ‘Electronic Music, Tar and Sehtar’ with its fantastically creative sense of freedom and abstract expression, pulling us deep into uncanny valleys of hyper modernism bursting with ideas and a sense of disrupted harmony that’s hard to absorb in one sitting. One of the most original, multi-layered things we’ve heard this year - a huge recommendation.
Ata Ebtekar’s restlessly searching sound has been in action for 30 years now and first appeared on our radar two decades ago with his debut 12” for Warp. Over the years he’s released on half a dozen labels - with Morphine, Sub Rosa and Opal Tapes among them - but this latest work for Diagonal has hit us like no other. On ‘Parallel Persia’, Ebtekar finds a poetic way of uniting his sounds into a brilliant aural energy that absorbs centuries of tradition before feeding into a new dimension of musical exploration.
Triggering a series of beguiling chain reactions that resonate throughout each track with electronic frequencies modulating the acoustic and vice-versa, Sote gradually re-sets templates to take us through a wormhole into an alternate reality, the Parallel Persia of the title. On the opening ‘Modality Transporter’, traditional Tar and Santur lay bare, unbothered by synthesis - but by the end of the track they become gradually transformed into ribboning tendrils of extruded electronics that continue to morph in fascinating ways. On ‘Brass Tacks’ they’re joined by unearthly, treated voices, before being pulled into bittersweet taffy on ‘Atomic Hypocrisy’, and utterly upending our proprioceptions in ‘Trans Force’, and the ancient-futuristic chants and dance rhythms recalling Rashad Becker in ‘Pipe Dreams’, until the whole thing ends in a purely singular language of unique intonation and shatterproof, beatless rhythms on ‘Pseudo Scholastic’.
‘Parallel Persia’ explores a subtle, gradual transformation into the unknown that’s both dizzying and inspirational, a reminder that pushing boundaries and templates works best when those boundaries are fully appreciated and understood. Innovation often births chaos and disruption, but beauty and symmetry, ultimately, prevail."
https://boomkat.com/products/parallel-persia
This was the perfect post-soul paradigm but yes the poptimists were already fighting a battle that was out of date.
I also very much agree with this. I mean critics accuse rave of being monodimensional but actually there was more room for the aleatory and chance within rigidly set restrictions. Whereas my critique of carly is not that she is packaged to solicit emotions, hasn't all music been like that since the disappearance of organised religion as an organising principle of the state in the west? It's actually that hardcore is more polyemotional than its critics give it credit for. in some senses (and i don't want to belabour the point because ultimately its a dead end) drugs can open you up to a multitude of emotional sensations that you suppress to survive in a disenchanted world.
This is why baby d let me be your fantasy was a kind of apotheosis and the hardcore continuum is resistant to apotheosises. when I say I think it's the wrong kind of hardcore to bait barty, im not saying i don't like it, i have much fond memories of it, but it's the attempt to intellectualise the rapture into a ppackage. see that's when it doesn't work. that's why noise factory the fire is better.
That's the thing I think from free improv that is worth preserving, that sense of anything could happen. but as barty correctly points out they went too deep into serial principles of randomness which itself can itself become an orthodoxy. but then why was the jazz establishment so resistant to miles davis? Well, we know that many people after the 60s civil rights movement had ascended to a position of economic class privilege (albeit most certainly not sociocultural privilege, which is the story of hip hop in a nutshell) and therefore the only thing worth doing was to preserve the tradition (again a characteristically modernist rearguard move) to appeal to white people. whereas the avant-garde and the free jazz and miles wanted to take it further into the black urban experience. There's a reason why on the corner didn't sell and it wasn't because it was too out there or because the jazz purists hated it, the purists also hated headhunters! but... anyway, the experience that wynton Marsalis has to disown because of his branding exercise.
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CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Not to steal from Third's bit BUT I think the nature of how K-Pop has to be consumed on the multitude of levels (which doesn't exist in Western Pop anymore) makes it some of the most unintentionally class-conscious music out there.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Ultimately the 'idol' version of pop is vastly superior to the post-Beatles notion of pop where the notion of the song is the paramount because it instead centers it around the performer's body. Granted the vocal is there but now the performer must dance, sing/rap and ultimately Be the star and as such pressure is exuded onto the subject not only from the inhumane conditions of their various employers and benefactors AND the Korean Military (who forcibly drafts so many of the stars inevitably thus securely putting a murmur in their career's heartbeat to potentially end it in SPITE of all their diligent work) but the ravenous consumption of the audience(s) and the societal expectations/obligations.
It's easily the most exploitative music in any possible realm.
It's easily the most exploitative music in any possible realm.